Lots of planes

treeve

Major Contributor
Many people are now complaining of illnesses and discomforts following a spray.
Aerosol components may not be simply sulphurous; interestingly The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change does not consider the action of sulphurous aerosol is as yet fully understood. This from a group that advocates the premise that man is contributing to the Carbon Dioxide component is going to approach critical and that something must be done about it.

OK take a spray, the component particles after spreading to form the blanket that reflects the sun's rays and keeps the heat in, is dispersed down into the troposphere, where it is gathered by winds, currents, absorbed into the clouds and water vapour, eventually ending up as rain or simply falling detritus that can be inhaled or is absorbed into the ground and into plants, even absorbed by skin and into the folds of the eyes. Those particles will be falling 20km, in what direction depends upon the air into which it falls, or for that matter the jet stream. The gravitational straight down would not happen. Whatever falls knows no geographical limitation.

I have reservations about claims of illness and discomfort during and following a spray. However, if the spray was taken over a period of days, then some overspill from adjoining skies will have a cumulative effect.
As well as that, there would be a cumulative effect in natures great reservoir for materials that should not be there, the soil. Add to this the expectation of intended operations and of the observance of widespread operations and it has to be accepted that this has been continuing for some 14 years.

Michael Murphy says on Countercurrents.org [2010]
Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering (SAG)
Another group of protestors had traveled over 10 hours from a small Shasta County community in Northern California. They became concerned about SAG when many from this community began to see dramatic changes not only in the sky, but also on the ground. Trees were dying, grass was not growing and many farmers were having difficulty getting any crops to grow on their farms. The crisis prompted biologists from the community to take action by testing the soil. The results were shocking. Aluminum, barium and other elements were found to be up to thousands of times higher than normal limits. Such high quantities lead to unhealthy PH levels in the soil which can be deadly to ecological life systems. These shocking results led to additional testing of Lake Shasta with samples from the Pit River arm tributary that tested over 4,610 times the maximum contamination level of aluminum allowed in drinking water in the state of California. Also, peer reviewed scientific studies conclude that bio-available aluminum, now found in huge quantities in rain world-wide, is very harmful to flora and thus the eco-system. Ironically, these are the same substances the scientists are considering implementing in the various potential “future” aerosol spraying campaigns that were being discussed at the meeting.

I find that to be extremely disturbing.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
There does not appear to be an official UK line on aerosol in the stratosphere, as their policy on 'Global Warming' is one of Climate Control through the reduction of Greenhouse Gases
go to
Climate change: Publications - BIS
and open the pdf
'5NC: the UK’s fifth national communication under the United Nations framework convention on climate change.'
 

treeve

Major Contributor
devil's advocate

I wonder how many of the protesting or worried public inhale tobacco, cannabis, opium, crack, narcotics in general. Let alone the use of cars.

Already inhaled by smokers and non smokers across the world. Carbon monoxide, Benzopyrene, dibenzopyrene, benzene, isoprene, toluene, naphthylamines; nickel, polonium, plutonium, arsenic, cadmium; carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia, nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide, hydrogen sulphide; methyl alcohol, éthanol, glycerol or glycerine, glycol, acetaldehyde, acrolein, acetone (aldehydes and ketones); cyanhydric or prussic acid, carboxyl derivatives (acids); chrysene, pyrrolidine, nicoteine, nicotinine, nicoteline, nornicotine, nitrosamines (alkaloids or bases); cresol (phenols), etc.

This is rather more direct than a spray of aerosols in the stratosphere.
Then the atmosphere is being self polluted by man with carbon, carbon monoxide, aldehydes, nitrogen dioxide, sulphur dioxide and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons [diesel exhaust]

Then there is the 'accepted' policy of burning tyres or polystyrene and urea products. A cocktail of lethal proportions.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
The Air Quality Index is assembled on a points basis of a total maximum of 500, for each of the five major pollutants, in relation to the figures set down by The Clean Air Act, a figure is collated, in terms of parts per million, ranging from 0.085 to 0.14 depending on the pollutant.
Listed Present Pollutants
Various fine particles
Sulphur Dioxide
Carbon Monoxide
Nitrogen dioxide
Ozone
From this the Clean Air Act determines a maximum pollution of 100 x 0.14 parts per million before the air is considered unhealthy 'for certain groups'. (=14).
However, there are also other pollutants ....
Toxic Organic
Benzene
Butadiene
Lead and other heavy metals such as copper
Various fine particles, sand and dust
None of which are listed in the Clean Air Act AQI.
For comparison Oxygen is 209460 ppm
and Nitrogen is 780840 ppm

Working out comparative levels of the atmosphere as regards 'acceptable pollution' and the sprayed stratospheric aerosol.
The height of the Troposphere varies worldwide from 6 to 20 kilo metres.
Taking a square metre on which a person stands, with a column height of minimum 6 km.
[10 metric tons 2500 km flight 1 m sq From the projected figures produced as calculated advice for calculated effect, a standard 'injection' would be of 1 metric ton of sulphate material spread over an area of 2,500km x 1metre, that is 2,500,000 sq metres of the stratosphere. ]
You can extrapolate for any other density or materials.
Our column of air directly above of is 6,000,000 metres. The top 1 metre is now filled with sprayed aerosol. It will spread and disappate with winds and humidity. However, working on a single column of air ....
a) Assuming the air quality is at its acceptable on the ground .... That is 100 parts per million. Our column is polluted therefore to the tune of 1 cu metre = 1000 x 1 million cu mm.
So 10% (a 10th) = 600,000,000 mm cu of that is polluted according to the Earth sciences definition of pollution.
b) Taking the stratospheric aerosol layer of injected material, that is a potential of a pollution of a 6millionth. ie miniscule. In other words the sprayed aerosol; would be around a 600thousandth of the level pollution deemed to be acceptable.
On the basis of that, it would not appear to be a threat.
by the way, the weight distribution is
10 metric tons / 2500 km x 1metre.
10000000/2500000 ; ie 1 gram per 4 square metres of sky. So in our column of air, there is 0.25 grams of aerosol material.
 
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46traveller

Member
The semi good news is, since the volcanic activity in Iceland, most if not all aeroplane movement across the UK has ceased. The sky just looks a bit clearer today.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
These last few days there has been some residual stratospeheric scatter, but mixed with natural cirrus. My one remaining question is as to just what the chemical constituents are. I am dismissing the paranoid ideas of mass extermination :). I am dismissing levels of pollution as to claims of poisoning the environment. The idea that particles descend vertically (unlike the WTC) is a nonsense. Having seen the extent of scientific research undertaken over many years by those whose ideals are ones of a responsible view of the environment, despite claims of secrecy, it is open and freely available, I cannot accept that it is anything other than an attempt at geoengineering, with flawed thinking.
 

46traveller

Member
Forgot to mention, a friend in Norfolk (Asthma Sufferer) has been asked to monitor the air differences when no planes are flying along with any fallout from the volcanic activity. Many asthma sufferers countrywide are participating in this data collecting and it will be interesting to see the results. This is one report the government will have a hard job to stop being published owing to the organisations involved.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
A collection of irrational unfounded 'science' hacks narrated by someone who is a poor speaker and who has no knowledge of the meaning of what he is reading. Instead of a series of unfounded postulations, it would have been better to have provided actual evidence. This is straight out of the death ray comics. Zap em all Captain Kremmen ! This is real 'reds under the beds' stuff.
 
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treeve

Major Contributor
I am sympathetic towards Asthma sufferers, my wife suffered most of her life. Various triggers are involved, one of the strongest is panic itself. Stratospheric aerosols/particles (which exist naturally as well as those that are being sprayed as a part of the 'Global Warming' project) simply do not drop straight to the ground. It would have to be proven that densities of fallen particles come from the aerosol discharge, and from what sector. As far as the Icelandic volcano is concerned, 'ash' and other particles continue to fall, down as far as France. Some of those will continue to descend for some months. It will not be the first time that an Icelandic volcano discharge has affected 'Britain'. In the Middle Ages, thousands were killed by poisonous dust and many starved or were poisoned by contaminated food from agriculture.
It covered much of Europe.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
If anyone wants to look into something to REALLY worry about, concentrate on the very real possibility of any volcano or fissure discharging volcanic dust and ash into the atmosphere; the dust can shred lungs. Livestock dies, plants are buried, water is polluted. All it takes is for the very dense material to pile up more than 100mm thick and most roofs could collapse. Goodbye machinery - barely enough power for society, barely any transport ... The reason ... it is spread in the troposphere, not the stratosphere. It therefore finds groundfall quickly. Interesting piece of maths for you ... dustfall, or as it was called 'dry fog', from Eldgja in 934 (and up until 954) and another in 1783 from Eyjafjallajokull. When will Katla give us a blast? Smog is pure air compared to volcanic ash.
 
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treeve

Major Contributor
NASA Terra Satellite image ... The brown is ash from Eyjafjallajökull.
Although not a direct threat to the UK, there is some coverage over the UK. It extends to Northern France. Denmark and Germany are getting the worst. Some of the ash and sulphur dioxide could take up to two years to completely disperse. There is a risk to jet engines. A potential risk to lungs in those that are sensitive. It depends on the particle sizes. There is a potential for acid rain. A good sunny sky will be a good thing for a while.
100416185157-large.jpg
 

treeve

Major Contributor
For a reality trip ..
Ejected volcanic ash = from 63 microns, up to 64mm.
The particles are roughly the shape of burnt out coal, and are rock debris and glass. Vicious sharp edges.
Cigarette smoke has a particle size of 3.5 microns.
Hair is 100 microns thick.
The present stratosphere injection aerosol size is 0.25 microns. Smooth and round.
a) vertical fall, impossible.
b) immediate ground response, impossible.
c) immediate reaction by comparison with other invasions, highly unlikely.
d) In comparison with naturally occurring volcanic ash, a pussycat.
e) chemical composition, of some considerable concern as to reaction to individuals with susceptibilties. In any event, no amount of immediate monitoring will produce any formulated results. It is more than likely that any aerosol particle will take two months to find groundfall, and then not on the land below the sky coverage.

The whole science is here in this pdf
(Hardly a secret)
http://web.mit.edu/esi/symposia/symposium-2009/2009-symposium-penner.pdf
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Chaff
For a very full specification go to
Chaff - Radar Countermeasures
A non politically aligned, non governmental site that has been around a long time.
'There are two types of chaff, aluminum foil and aluminum-coated glass fibres.
The foil type is no longer manufactured, although it remains in the inventory and is used primarily by B-52 bombers.
Both types are cut into dipoles ranging in length from 0.3 to over 2.0 inches. They are made as small and light as possible so they will remain in the air long enough to confuse enemy radar.
The aluminum foil dipoles are 0.45 mils (0.00045 inches) thick and 6 to 8 mils wide.
The glass fibre dipoles are generally 1 mil (25.4 microns) in diameter, including the aluminum coating which is 0.12 f 0.06 mils thick.
A new superfine glass fibre chaff is being manufactured that is 0.7 mil (17.8 microns) in diameter.'

Just how much of this material could be absorbed by the ecosystem, is a matter for a biochemist, as to the particles entering leaf structure or root structure. Perhaps being consumed by animals. Eventually entering the food chain. Taken into water courses and reservoirs.

Here is what Global Security have to say ...
'The effects of releases of chaff, dud flares, and flare ash on the environmental depend on a variety of factors, including the quantity of material released, the propensity of these materials to leach toxic chemicals under given conditions, and the sensitivity of receiving environments to contaminants of concern. In that vein, the material likely to generate the highest volume of debris is chaff, which eventually precipitates totally to the surface. Dud flares are rare and incidental events, so it is extremely unlikely that any location would experience a “build-up” of dud flare material in the environment. Flare ash is a by-product of combustion and is widely dispersed by winds. The likelihood that a sufficient quantity of chaff or flare ash would fall into a particular pond, stream, or estuary, to measurably affect its chemical makeup is remote.'

So, it is up to the private individual to watch and note .... and report ...
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Something to think about

Eyjafjallajökull is a pussycat in the general scheme of things.

1755 was a good year for the dramatic.
Portugal suffered the earthquake in November, following the volcanic ash by Laki in October. Not a surprise really, since they both lie on the Mid Atlantic Ridge, the great divide that is getting wider as the US drifts further way, or is it Europe that is drifting away from the US.

There are some other fire and brimstone belchers on our doorstep.
Generally speaking, a lull in eruption is not a good sign, the violence is gathering its forces for the big one. These are classified as of major concern.
Vesuvius, Etna, and Campi Flegrei (Italy)
La Soufrière Guadeloupe, Mt Pelée Martinique and Soufrière Saint Vincent (Caribbean)
Agua de Pau, Sete Cidades and Furnas (Azores, Portugal)
Hekla (Iceland)

Not forgetting Cumbre Vieja (mid atlantic La Palma) – here is a special problem; a loose rock, the size of the Isle of Man, already slipping, but is potentially due for collapse from an eruption. It erupts 20 to 200 years apart, it is a hair trigger untimed event….. Imagine a tidal wave a mile high ... 33 feet by the time it reaches Britain.

I should also mention the Yellowstone supervolcano, despite being ‘due’ for eruption in 90,000 years time, it has the potential to erupt at any time. Volcanoes and Faults do not run to schedule. Here is something to visualise … One thousand cubic kilometres of ash … world changing stuff. That would rather make the 1783 event seem like a dust storm.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
I wondered a few posts back as to the extent of the visible portion of sky above us.
Just what portion of this orb is our conscious surroundings. I also wish to place our perspective of the skies.
As far as the immediate horizon is concerned (ignoring near cliffs and far mountains) we inhabit a circle of earth. If standing on the Promenade, our (sea) horizon is 5.8 miles. Go up Chapel Carn Brea and it is 31 miles. We visually occupy between 100 sq miles and 3000 sq miles. However, our eyes take us to the stratosphere beyond the horizon. That line of sight is easily calculated by the same pythagorean trick that gives us the distance to the horizon. The Stratosphere, like the Earth, however, is not a pure geometrically generated sphere. It is an irregular oblate spheroid. But, to make calculations simpler, call it a globe. The Earth is approximately 6,378,137 metres radius. The Stratosphere is on the same presumption minimum of 11,000 metres. Our line of sight passes the horizon tangentially, so generating yet another right angled triangle. The line of sight intersects the Stratosphere in another 374km [232 miles]. Our visual occupancy of the visible atmosphere is a grand circle of 236 to 263 miles radius; for the sake of simplicity, say 250 squared x 3.14159, that is say 196,000 sq miles of sky. 196,940,400 square miles is the surface area of Earth. We see approximately 1/9950th of the whole (from up Chapel Carn Brea). Yet, we as a human being occupy barely a couple of square feet. As a percentage of the visible area of Stratosphere, it would generate a tiny figure, with lots of zeros after the decimal point.
Anyone that claims that they feel ill shortly following Stratospheric Aerosol Spraying is suffering from something other than chemical descent…. Imagination would be the closest definition. This is not crop dusting … this is a minimum of 11 kilometres away. This is not North by Northwest.
 
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