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Conspiracy Theories

Discussion in 'Conspiracy theories' started by treeve, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Other 'conspiracies involve New World Order, and a Banking system which is intended to take over the world, that began in Renaissance times (long term planning), the Barcode is a satanic Money system 'Number of the Beast is 666, which it is NOT - the number is 616. I do get tired of that old chestnut; if you wanna make an idiotic claim and waste everyone's time, get your facts right. A Nazi moonbase?!; and if you ever wanted to know why your KFC tastes odd, it is laced with impotency drugs that only work on black people.

    Apparently the Royal Reptiles came from Draco ... now how would the occupants of a planet in the contellation Draco know that name? How would a name given to it thousands of years ago be in their knowledge? The constellation, like all constellations is wide spread millions of light years apart (it is not a set of lights cut in the sky as was believed way back), and from another point in the universe would look like some other object more familiar to the observer, like a mobile phone or a Grodnioid Klismak.

    I believe that David Icke is the product of his own paranoid neuroses and he comes from the Planet Tharg. He sells books. Reason.

    Is there any intelligent life form on Earth?

    First question is never asked ... Why would this be done.
    Second if it is patently obvious to non-specialist observers, the cover up should be more carefully wrapped.
    With thousands of historical swindles and conspiracies of the first order at their fingertips, they miss the salient details of a perfect swindle. Forgetting the first Rule. If you are going to tell a lie, tell a good one. If they are that easy to spot, they are not a good lie.
    Logic and reasoning fails in most conspiracy theories. They end up following a trail of details that are impossible to find. Like any present day observer, any scenario may be made to fit with our gathered experiences.

    Charlemagne did not exist, for example. The centuries between 600 and 900 AD were swept away in a Time Warp, all artefacts and history of that time are figments of historians creation. What exactly is the purpose behind throwing away 300 years of history? Just how did mankind, animals, plants etc progenerate from the first sequence to the second?

    Bunch of Nutters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  2. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Who Killed JFK?

    Other 'conspiracies involve New World Order, and a Banking system which is intended to take over the world, that began in Renaissance times (long term planning), the Barcode is a satanic Money system 'Number of the Beast is 666, which it is NOT - the number is 616. I do get tired of that old chestnut; if you wanna make an idiotic claim and waste everyone's time, get your facts right. A Nazi moonbase?!; and if you ever wanted to know why your KFC tastes odd, it is laced with impotency drugs that only work on black people.

    Apparently the Royal Reptiles came from Draco ... now how would the occupants of a planet in the contellation Draco know that name? How would a name given to it thousands of years ago be in their knowledge? The constellation, like all constellations is wide spread millions of light years apart (it is not a set of lights cut in the sky as was believed way back), and from another point in the universe would look like some other object more familiar to the observer, like a mobile phone or a Grodnioid Klismak.

    I believe that David Icke is the product of his own paranoid neuroses and he comes from the Planet Tharg. He sells books. Reason.

    Is there any intelligent life form on Earth?

    First question is never asked ... Why would this be done.
    Second if it is patently obvious to non-specialist observers, the cover up should be more carefully wrapped.
    With thousands of historical swindles and conspiracies of the first order at their fingertips, they miss the salient details of a perfect swindle. Forgetting the first Rule. If you are going to tell a lie, tell a good one. If they are that easy to spot, they are not a good lie.
    Logic and reasoning fails in most conspiracy theories. They end up following a trail of details that are impossible to find. Like any present day observer, any scenario may be made to fit with our gathered experiences.

    Charlemagne did not exist, for example. The centuries between 600 and 900 AD were swept away in a Time Warp, all artefacts and history of that time are figments of historians creation. What exactly is the purpose behind throwing away 300 years of history? Just how did mankind, animals, plants etc progenerate from the first sequence to the second?

    Bunch of Nutters.
     
  3. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Draco; The Dragon, or Serpent, as you will. A look a the etymology of the name reveals that it could be in part interpreted as whale or sea serpent, or even jackal. It all depends on the root and the determined gender. However, the name is said to have been inspired for this constellation from Babylonian myths (probably sourced from conspiracy theorists of the time) of Tiamat who turned herself into a dragon (an early shape shifter?). The Egyptians saw these stars as part of their constellation Hippopotamus, and part of the Crocodile. The Arabic name for the main star and the constellation is Thuban (The Dragon), Pole Star of the Egyptions, to become the pole star again in 21,000 .. will the world end in 21,000? Don't blame me, it is the Royal Family at their nefarious worst. Already there is a break between Babylon and Egypt in cosmic thought. So why is there a need for constellations? A need for seasonal awareness, a need for the demonstration of the mystics to their peoples of their supreme knowledge and power... knowledge is power. A thought that seems to escape this modern world. Following the hype of the purges that have blighted modern life, Commy bashing, McCarthyism, anti Semetism, Apartheid, Slavery, Black subjugation and denigration, Matthew Hopkins, The Spanish Inquisition, it is not surprising that a fear of authority is ingrained in the consciousness. A basic mistrust of those in power, political or religious; the royal families are perceived as evil. Modern history like Ancient history is built on massacre and oppression. Unfortunately the world at large is either seen to be complacent or interfering. No one is allowed to get it right. But, of Draco, a constellation made of 14 stars of a massive spread of hundreds of light years apart. The nearest, I believe, is 110 light years away. Assuming a planet does exist in that far off system, we have to assume its reptilian shape shifters have somehow become aware of a tiny solar system 110 light years away (that is near enough 650 trillion miles away), using whatever sensory equipment they have devised to discover the system has a planet which supports a marginal life form. A handful of those reptilian shape shifters gets in the first ship to leave Eltanin 3 Space Port and head for Earth. Their 200 year mission, not world domination, not the international banks, not massive slaughter, but to seek out a small group of Royals in a tiny country of the scratch end of Europe, a secondary power in global terms. Their intent to suck blood. Not even the wildest of ancient myth comes anywhere near that kind of insanity. Now, legends and myths. In view of parallel mythology connected with this contellation - Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, Chinese, Persians and Hindu - not forgetting the Adena. Perhaps they were all from Eltanin Three and have been living here for thousands of years. Or it could be that the Constellation was 'seen' because it held the Pole Star a centre of attention for Navigational purposes, and sailors pass on expertise by necessity, the name and position and easy method of identification in the sky being all that it is. If it fits some local legend, then fine, something to chat about on the long cold nights at sea.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  4. ibrowze

    ibrowze Senior Member

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    Sensible remarks

    I'm prepared to make sensible contributions to this thread starting with this link:-
    http://www.bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/video/dark-legacy
    Ironically the assassination of JFK seems to be connected to the only skyscrapers that have ever totally collapsed as a result of fire damage and blow me down with a feather if they didn't all happen to be destroyed on the same day. I think you'll generally find the cover up story to be the real conspiracy theory.
     
  5. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I have never for one second believed that John Kennedy was assasinated by anyone other than his own, the official story was a complete fiction, even I could see that on our poor quality TV thousands of miles away. I know that we discussed the 'slump'.
    However it is good to see particulars which I have never seen before in such detail, and that runs alongside my own thinking. For me it never was a theory.
     
  6. bear

    bear Member

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    Jfk..........rip

    That was a good link Ibrowze. Thanks for that I really enjoyed it. I don't know who killed JFK, but my personal viewpoint is that Lee Oswald didn't do it, and the single bullet theory is impossible. I've seen several of these programs, and some mention a group of men leaving the rail yard behind the "grassy Knoll" and taking up positions behind the fence. Unfortunately most of the witnesses have since expired through foul means or fair.
    Thanks again.
     
  7. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    Ok, I'll agree that not all conspiracies are just that. Some are simple rumour whilst others are anti establishment slander.
    So I would like members to bring their conspiracy theory to the table and let's look and see what, if any evidence exists.
    There are natural phenomenons that either do, or don't fit into this criteria...
     
  8. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Excellent piece of thought patterns and linkage. I doubt any other linkage would fit. Good name for someone who sweeps it all under the carpet. I was hoping other conspiracy theories would come into this thread, real and cuckoos. Speaking of cuckoos, what has happened with George W (good initial) Bush?
    MY God, what a bunch of Nazi W_____s.
    What has happened with the American Dream?
    I detest Racism and Bigotry.
     
  9. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    I have made a new thread about JKF... or rather just moved it. Please use the new thread:)
     
  10. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    @bear Today we are of greater intelligence than 40 odd years ago. Not only greater intelligence but wiser to our surroundings.
    I personally disagree with the Magic bullet theory. I'm no ballistics expert but I 'm pretty sure that the impossible can't be achieve in the way we were all led to believe.
    Anyway, there are more questions about JFK than you can shake a stick at.
    For instance, what was the security stepped down that day?
    Why was the motorcade diverted?
    What really happened to Marilyn Monroe?
    In fact the whole Kennedy family was pretty controversial and I think treeve is on the right trail.
    I think we all agree that JFK was assassinated by his own... but the real question is why?
    Cuba?
    I'm all ears!
     
  11. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Have you not watched the video? The evidence is compelling. He was murdered because of his view on peace and the abolition of the military industry. The endless complex lies, it is a catalogue of the corruption in the US governement and agencies. The day in Dallas was specifically orchestrated to its murderous end. The mutilation of the body is as damning as it gets. The breach of Laws to steal the body and sequester it on Airforce One. A single bullet is too good for them, they need to suffer, a bullet is over in a microsecond.
     
  12. ibrowze

    ibrowze Senior Member

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    JFK and the war machine

    Since JFK was murdered the war machine has kept rolling on...................nine one one.
     
  13. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Marilyn Monroe

    Having established incontrovertible connections and observation on the murder of John F Kennedy and the murder of near 3,000 innocent US citizens on 9/11, the murder of Marilyn Monroe (never a doubt in my mind over that), in advance of that of JFK, the cover up was always a nonsense. I have always believed it to be a mish mash concocted to obfuscate the public into looking at the rumours rather than reality.
    It all aimed at the discreditation of JFK and the rest of the Kennedy family.
    Federal Bureau of Implication?
    Control of Intelligence Agency?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  14. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy (Part 1)

    Olympic and Titanic were the first two of three sister ships, each intended to be about 850 feet long and weighing in at between forty and forty five thousand gross register tons apiece. As completed they would turn out to be slightly more than 882 and a half feet long and have a gross register tonnage 45,324 tons and 46,329 tons respectively. The third sister, Britannic , would be slightly larger at 887 feet 9 inches long and weigh 48,158 gross register tons. Britannic , which never entered service with the White Star Line, played a very minor part in what happened to her sister except to show us the British government's continued confidence in these vessels despite the fate of the class leader. The Olympic class ships were intended by their owners to be the safest, strongest, most opulent, and by a comfortable margin, the largest vessels afloat. The first two vessels of the class, Olympic and Titanic were constructed side by side at Harland & Wolff's Belfast Yard from a single set of drawings. As launched the two sisters were identical. Olympic's keel, yard number 400, was laid on 16 December 1908 and that of Titanic fifteen weeks later, on 31 March 1909. Work on the first ship progressed more rapidly than on the second with the consequence that by the time they were launched the time between them had opened to almost thirty two weeks. Olympic , with her hull painted white to aid photographers, was launched on 20 October 1910 and Titanic , with her hull painted the more usual black, on 31 May the following year.
    It has been said that Olympic was built with a bow fronted wheelhouse, as is shown on plans of the ship published in mid 1911. However, a photograph taken from the top of the huge steel gantry specially constructed by Harland & Wolff to enable them to build the vessels shows this not necessarily to be the case. This photograph, taken immediately after the ship was launched, appears to show a straight fronted wheelhouse, exactly as it appeared on earlier drawings of the ship.
    The record shows that the front shape of the wheelhouse was altered during the surviving ship's 1912/13 refit. Testimony confirms that after this refit the ship did indeed have a curved front to its wheelhouse, which begs the question, “What shape was it before the refit?”
    The wheelhouse was little more than a wooden shed built within the main bridge structure and could be, and probably was, altered more than once throughout the 25 year life of the ship. So easily converted was this lightweight wooden structure that its shape at any time during the lifetime of the ship is not only a matter of speculation but is completely immaterial.
    On the very same day that Titanic was launched Olympic , after two days of trials, and public examination, was handed over to her new owners, the White Star Line. She left Belfast that afternoon for Liverpool , the line's home port, where she would be opened for public inspection the following day. Then she moved on to Southampton and again the public were allowed aboard before the vessel began to prepare for her maiden voyage, which would begin on 14 June 1911 .
    On schedule, under the command of Captain Edward John Smith, the White Star line's senior captain, Olympic set of on her first voyage to New York and back, via Cherbourg in France and Queenstown (now Colne) in Southern Ireland. She arrived in New York after a passage lasting five days, sixteen hours and 42 minutes, having made an average speed of just over 21 knots. After an uneventful and otherwise successful maiden voyage, as she was docking, the liner's stern collided with the tug O L Halenbeck , smashing the smaller vessels stern frame and rudder. It was not an auspicious beginning.
    As Olympic was leaving Southampton water on 20 September 1911 at the start of her fifth voyage to New York and back, still under the command of Captain Smith but with Trinity House pilot George William Bowyer effectively in control, she was rammed in the starboard quarter by the Royal Navy's old 7,350 ton armoured cruiser HMS Hawke . Both vessels were badly damaged in the collision.
    According to the received, official, version of events the cruiser attempted to overtake the accelerating liner on her starboard side. This placed the warship between Olympic and the Isle of Wight . As the Hawke , which was initially travelling faster than the liner, reached a point somewhere about abreast of the White Star ship's second funnel the liner matched and then surpassed her speed. By this time Hawke , trapped between Olympic and the land, was running out of sea room. Commander Blunt, on the Hawke , then decided to abandon his attempt to overtake and instead turn out into more open water by passing close under the liner's stern. As the smaller ship came closer to Olympic she was caught up in the suction effect, caused by the passage of the huge White Star vessel's hull through the water, and was drawn inexorably into her side. By way of explanation for the accident Commander Blunt later said that his helmsman had turned the ship's wheel the wrong way and before the mistake could be rectified the helm had jammed. Again according to Commander Blunt, immediately after the accident Hawke's helm freed itself and was once more operating normally. The story is, of course, nonsense. Hawke's steering gear, specifically designed so as not to jam, was operated by hydraulics, which can not jam unless the pressure within the system fails. This can only happen if a pipe bursts, a seal fails, or the pump ceases to operate. If the system does not lose hydraulic pressure then mechanical failure of the steering gear would inevitably result because of the tremendous forces applied by the hydraulics. In any event the cruiser's steering would have been useless until it had been properly repaired. It would certainly not be operating normally immediately after the collision as Blunt claimed.
    Hawke's bow had been badly distorted and torn in the collision and the iron ram which formed part of it had been completely torn off, or so the navy claimed. However, although somewhat mauled Hawke was able to make her way slowly into Portsmouth docks unaided.
    Olympic had not fared so well. She had a huge hole in her side. Two of her aft compartments were flooded. She was down by the stern. And her starboard main engine was out of commission. She was going nowhere in the immediate future.
    Luckily, the accident had happened at lunchtime when all of the passengers were in the dining saloons so there had been nobody in the second class cabins destroyed by Hawke's bow. Nobody was seriously injured in the accident but as Hawke pulled away from Olympic she dragged a lot of cabin furniture and some luggage out of the liner. A leather bag containing clothing, surgical instruments, diploma, medical books and other things belonging to Dr Downton was washed out of the hole and was picked up by a boatman and handed to the Customs officers at Cowes .
    Olympic , although badly damaged was in no danger of sinking so the ship was brought to a standstill and the anchor was dropped. While a quick assessment of the damage was made Captain Smith cut of all passenger communication with the outside world. Nobody was allowed to send wireless messages or to leave the ship. With his vessel now drawing rather more water than she had previously Smith was obliged to wait until the following day and a favourable tide before Olympic could return to Southampton for a more detailed inspection. However, it was apparent that the liner was too badly injured to continue her journey to America .
    In the evening the Southampton and Isle of Wight Company's passenger steamer Duchess of York took off about a hundred of Olympic's passengers who wanted to go to London , and took them to Southampton . Mr Phillip C Curry of the White Star Line was among them. He said that the rest of the passengers were quite happy about remaining aboard the damaged liner.
     
  15. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy (Part 2)




    The following day Olympic , assisted by tugs, had managed to make her way back to Southampton, to the Harland & Wolff repair yard where a proper assessment of the injury could be made, and the crew released. The visible damage to the ship above the waterline was impressive but it was as nothing compared to that below. Hawke's armoured bow, which had struck the liner about eighty five feet from her stern, had smashed a huge hour-glass shaped hole more then twenty five feet high and ten feet wide. The ram had penetrated far enough into Olympic to bend her starboard propeller shaft and fracture the crankshaft of the engine. The cruiser had also damaged all three blades of the starboard propeller, as she had disinterred her bow from the liner's vitals. For some reason never given the collision had made the turbine engine, situated on Olympic's centre line immediately above her keel, inoperable as well
    Also on 21 September White Star issued a writ against Commander Blunt, it being impossible to sue the Royal Navy, to recover the costs of repairing Olympic . This was immediately countered by a writ from the Navy against White Star to recover the costs of repairing their cruiser. The judgement of the court, delivered on 19 December 1911 : “The president (Sir Samuel Evans) accepted in all material respects the evidence from the Hawke and found that the collision was solely due to the faulty navigation of the Olympic .” Although the White Star Line would appeal that verdict all the way to the House of Lords in 1914 they never managed to get it overturned.
    The Royal Navy convened an inquiry into the accident on 22 September. Not surprisingly this inquiry, which received evidence from naval personnel only, found the White Star vessel entirely to blame for the accident and their own ship completely innocent of any wrong doing. Interestingly, the Navy had supposedly established the exact position where the accident occurred by recovering Hawke's iron ram, which, it was claimed, had been torn off in the collision, from the sea bed. The Royal Navy also claimed that HMS Hawke was out that day on speed trials and that she was at the Nab Buoy at 7.30 am . She ran at 96 RPM for four hours and reduced speed to 82 RPM off St Catherine's Point at 11.30 am . and then proceeded through the Needles channel. (RH 4.5.00) This could not be the truth as Hawke's best speed would not allow to make the necessary distance in the time available. 1 knot is about 15% longer than a statute mile. At her top speed Hawke could cover about twenty two and a half miles in an hour, or just over 28 miles in the time available. The distance from St Catherine's Point to where the collision occurred, making no allowance for turning around the Needles or negotiating past Hurst Castle (guarding the entrance to the western end of the Solent ) was something slightly more than thirty miles; almost exactly the distance she could have covered in the time available, steaming all out. Once any sort of allowance is made to allow her sea room to clear the Needles, Hurst Castle , or any other ships that might conceivably get in her way, and as we shall shortly see at least one vessel did get in the way, the figures make even less sense.
    So what really happened? Well, according to eye witness reports, Hawke did come up from behind Olympic , on her starboard side, and did appear to be attempting to overtake. However, from that point onwards the received version of events is demonstrably untrue. In Hawke's path was the brand new South American patrol vessel 10 de Octobre , which had just been completed by White's Southampton shipyard and was out for its initial trials. The presence of the foreign warship meant that Commander Blunt had to alter course towards the Isle of Wight in order to pass between her and Cowes , somewhat limiting his room for manoeuvre. Hawke , after going around the new patrol boat, then turned ninety degrees to port (left), which would have taken several hundred yards, and slammed into Olympic's side at right angles. Hardly the collision one would expect if the smaller naval ship had been accidentally drawn into the liner's side by the ‘suction effect'. The collision was so violent that Olympic's stern was pushes around by something more than forty five degrees, which indicates that the cruiser's engines were still at full-ahead when she struck the liner. The force of the collision and the fact that Hawke was specifically designed to sink large ships by ramming them argues that the damage sustained by the White Star ship would be rather more than that described above. That Commander Blunt had to go around a foreign warship, that he would not have expected to be on the scene, in order to reach Olympic suggests that the collision might not have been an accident at all.
    Olympic was brought to a halt so that the extent of the damage could be assessed. Captain Smith, before any personal messages concerning the incident could be sent out by passengers, ordered a wireless blackout. Only signals approved by him were allowed to leave the stricken liner. Even though Olympic was noticeably down by the stern, very shortly after the collision, no preparations were put in hand to evacuate the liner.
    Despite Captain Smith's apparent lack of concern some passengers were prepared to make their own arrangements to either get a message away or to leave the damaged ship. Immediately after the Hawke collision Captain Smith issued orders that nobody, except White Star officials, was to enter or leave Olympic . (Apparently, as appears usual with incidents concerning White Star vessels, a security clampdown was put into immediate effect, which leaves one wondering why) However, Mr Magee, of San Francisco , an American passenger, who was particularly anxious about getting back to New York , succeeded in getting off the ship. He hailed a boat which was being rowed by a young fellow called Spencer, and sliding down a rope which was passed out of a porthole, he managed to reach the boat and was taken ashore. He rewarded Spencer with a couple of sovereigns. On reaching Cowes Magee made straight for the shipping office of WT Mahey and telephoned from there to try to book passage to New York in the Adriatic , which sailed from Liverpool on Thursday evening. He was unable to complete the arrangements and left by passenger steamer for Southampton . Mr Magee explained his hasty departure, “The fact is, I wanted to see my baby at home, and seeing that the Olympic was out of commission, I thought I had better look out for another ship.” He had dangled, up to his waist in the water, for four or five minutes before Spencer had rescued him. Once he had reached Southampton he went to the White Star office “and booked my three berths on the Adriatic .” He was only just in time as there were only seven berths left on that ship when he booked. He would be 2 days late in seeing his baby. Who really was the American passenger on Olympic who was so desperate to get of the ship after the Hawke collision. His explanation that there was a child he must see is a little unlikely (to say the least) but he was so desperate to reach America that he was prepared to risk his life, and to pay for a three berth cabin on the Adriatic . (RH 4.5.00)
    Another enterprising American, probably a journalist, who was on the Olympic , threw a watertight box attached to a piece of wood overboard. It was picked up by Mr Ernest Kirk, a photographer, and found to contain a cable message to the Boston Herald, briefly reporting the collision and stating that while there were many narrow escapes all were safe on board. Although no money was enclosed Mr Kirk despatched the cable at a cost of some £2.
    That a passenger had to get a message away by putting it in a bottle and throwing it overboard confirms that Captain Smith had stopped the transmission of any messages from the damaged liner. It also argues that the American passenger was prepared for what happened, as was Mr Kirk. Is it really believable that Kirk would have sent this telegram at his own expense unless he had been pre-warned that the necessity might arise? After all, two pounds was a considerable sum of money in 1911; the equivalent today of a week's wages for an ordinary working man.
    As mentioned above, the damaged liner returned to Southampton the following day so that the damage might be examined at Harland & Wolff's repair facility there. It was soon apparent that Olympic was very badly damaged and that any further planned voyages, for the foreseeable future, would have to be abandoned. Consequently, the White Star Line refused to pay Olympic's crew for the remainder of the aborted voyage after 22 September, justifying that decision by claiming that the ship was a wreck. Only if the ship was a wreck were the owners entitled to stop the crew's pay. Were the vessel merely damaged then the seamen were due payment for the complete voyage for which they had signed aboard. Not unexpectedly the crew were not happy with this decision and consulted their union officials at the earliest opportunity.
     
  16. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy (Part 3)

    As was only to be anticipated, the seamen's union contested the owner's decision to stop their member's wages and the first court case began on 29 September. The case was initially heard at the petty sessions of the Southampton County Court but the magistrates were unable to come to a verdict, so on 11 October they referred the whole thing to the Admiralty Court ; the date set was in March 1912. A determination was arrived at on the first day of April. The court found in favour of the owners. They agreed that following the Hawke incident Olympic was a wreck. Still not satisfied the seamen took their grievance to the Court of Appeal, basing their case on section 58 of the merchant Shipping act of 1894. “Where the service of a seaman terminates before the date contemplated in the agreement (of service), by reason of the wreck or loss of the ship . . . he shall be entitled to wages up to the time of such termination, but not for any longer period.”
    “The word “wreck” within this section (of the Act) means something less than total loss. Any damage to a ship from a cause for which neither the master nor the owner, on the one side, nor the seamen, on the other, is actively responsible, which damage does not constitute loss of the ship, but of necessity renders her incapable of carrying out the maritime adventure in respect of which the seamen's contract was entered into and so terminates the service of the seaman, will render the ship a “wreck” within the section.” The appeal failed.
    The Appeal Court hearing the seamen's claim that their wages should not have been stopped following the collision between Hawke and Olympic would have been aware that the accident, according to the Naval Inquiry, had been entirely the fault of the liner. They knew that the owners and master had been found responsible. As the accident had been judged to be the responsibility of the owners there can only be one justification for the court upholding their decision to terminate the crew's wages. Olympic really was a wreck following her brush with HMS Hawke .
    It took Harland & Wolff's repair yard at Southampton two weeks to patch the damaged liner up well enough for her to even attempt the voyage back to Belfast for proper repairs. A gigantic patch, not unlike a big sticking plaster, made of heavy timbers above the waterline and steel plates below it, was placed over the damaged hull plating to seal up the hole. For the trip back to the builders, which began on 3 October, Olympic was obliged to steam on just her port main engine, which tell us that the centrally mounted turbine was damaged and unusable, along with the starboard reciprocating engine. Under normal circumstances this turbine could operate on the exhaust steam from one or both of the main engines. By the time the ship made it back to the Belfast yard the patch on her hull had failed and the same two aft compartments were once again flooded.
    Once back at Belfast , with the water pumped out of her and the stern lightened sufficiently to allow Olympic to enter the Thompson Graving Dock, she could be properly examined. There was the huge hour glass shaped hole in the plating, the starboard propeller was damaged and unserviceable, 18 feet of the outer steel propeller shaft covering was crushed and torn, the propeller shaft was bent and the crankshaft of the starboard engine was badly damaged. The bent shaft revolving for even one revolution, as it must have done, would have at least destroyed its bearings at the very rear of the ship and damaged the huge stern frames themselves. The stern propeller shaft bearings and frames were intended to last the lifetime of the liner and there was no provision for their replacement. In fact the first time that the stern frame of a large liner was replaced was in 1925/26. The impact of the collision must have given the starboard engine bed quite a jolt, which would inevitably have caused further structural damage. And we know that the centrally mounted turbine engine was unusable, which hints at damage deep within the ship, possibly to the keel itself.
    These new ships represented, between them, a huge investment by White Star. They cost about one and a half million pounds each to build, and needed to operate without any serious problems for six or seven years before the company showed any sort of profit. All of the while the Olympic was out of service the White Star Line were losing money in lost fares as well as having to pay for the repairs. It was therefore a matter of some urgency to get the vessel back to sea as quickly as possible.
    Harland & Wolff had no spare engine crankshaft, propeller, or propeller shaft on hand to replace those damaged items on Olympic , except ones awaiting fitment to her sister vessel, Titanic . In order to remove the damaged propeller shaft and engine crank hull plating over almost a third of the ship's length and sections of decking above them had to be stripped away. Nevertheless, with no other alternative left open to them Harland & Wolff set about repairing the damaged ship using cannibalised parts from the still incomplete Titanic . The propeller blades, which had come into contact with HMS Hawke , and consequently looked as if they had been gnawed by a giant rat, were replaced by those intended for the second sister ship and already bearing her yard number, 401. The 01 of that number is still clearly visible on the starboard main propeller of the wreck, commonly believed to be that of Titanic , which was supposedly discovered by Dr Robert Ballard of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute on 1 September 1985 . (There is evidence to show that the British Admiralty knew the whereabouts of the wreck for many years before Dr Ballard made his discovery of it.)
    It must have been while these hasty repairs were going on that it was found that the ship was much more badly damaged than was first apparent. So badly damaged in fact that it was beyond economic repair. In all probability the tremendous wrenching and twisting forces imposed in the collision with Hawke had bent or broken the vessel's keel somewhere about its weakest point below the main engine room. The ship could be patched up and the hull reinforced, but it would never be the same again. Nor would it be up to weathering many Atlantic winter storms without coming apart. Nevertheless, the owners had to get a ship into service sooner rather than later. They couldn't even make a claim against their insurers since the naval inquiry had found Olympic wholly to blame for the collision with HMS Hawke , and any other inquiry was almost certain to do the same.
     
  17. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy (Part 4)

    As we now know, these ships were the largest and most opulent vessels built up to that time but because of faulty workmanship they were anything but the strongest and safest. The hulls of all three vessels were of rivetted construction and in the most part a new technique, hydraulic rivetting, was employed. This new technique, which took the place of the older system of hand rivetting with red hot rivets should have resulted in much stronger and more reliable joints. Unfortunately the workers at Harland & Wolff saw the coming of the new technology not as a labour saving advantage but as a threat to their jobs (which in the long term it certainly would be). Adopting a somewhat Luddite attitude, instead of taking the care needed to position the new rivetting machines exactly where they should be to do their work effectively the workers didn't bother. Consequently many rivets were not put in straight or tight and in some cases the holes drilled for them were stretched out of shape. To make bad matters worse some of the plating of the ship's hulls had been drilled before the plates were bent to shape. This had also badly distorted some of the rivet holes, particularly where the plates had been bent around the curve of the ship's bilges. Large sections of this rivetting failed within months of Olympic entering service and the Board of Trade required the ship to be dry-docked in February 1912 for repairs. Many rivets were drilled out and replaced, and steel strips were rivetted over the joints to reinforce them. When the vessel returned to the yard in March 1912, ostensibly to have yet another propeller blade replaced, it was found that many more rivets had failed and much more reinforcement was carried out.
    While Olympic was being patched up after her encounter with Hawke the solution to the owners' and builder's problems would have became obvious. Even as they cannibalised parts from the second, almost complete and practically identical, sister ship the idea of a complete switch must have occurred. After all, It wouldn't be the first or last time that the identities of ships had been transferred one to another. To this day the most common major maritime fraud is to switch the names of ships. If the ships were switched then the damaged Olympic , masquerading as her sister Titanic , could be lost at sea and an insurance claim made.
    The second sister ship, still without propellers and shafts, was clearly not ready to take her place on the high seas so Olympic would have to be put back into service, if only for as long as it would take to complete Titanic . It still took more than two months to make the battered Olympic even remotely ready to resume her regular sailings between Southampton and New York . As already mentioned, parts intended for the newer vessel were fitted to Olympic , such as the starboard main propeller. However, because the ship was not intended to last for any appreciable amount of time at least some of these repairs were not properly completed; such as the cone at the rear of the propeller boss, designed to smooth the flow of water and reduced drag, which was never re-fitted. The omission of this relatively small item would have appreciably increased the running costs of the ship. Perhaps more importantly, the large bearing designed to transfer the thrust from the huge starboard propeller to the main stern frame and structure of the ship was never refitted. Without this vital bearing all of the stresses created by the propeller would have to be taken by the propeller shaft and engine bearings, shortening their life dramatically. In fact the life of the engines would have been reduced to a matter of months from the 25 years or so that the owners originally intended. (This massive bronze bearing, which must have been seriously damaged in the collision, was an expensive item in its own right.) It should also be remembered that the damaged starboard propeller with its bent shaft had continued to turn for at least one full revolution immediately after it came into contact with Hawke's armoured hull; as is proven by the fact that all three propeller blades were damaged in the collision. The bent shaft revolving in the massive bush bearing in the stern frame would have deformed that bearing to the point where it was useless. These bearings were designed to last the lifetime of the ship and there was no provision for their replacement. While the bearing might have been useable for a short time after it was damaged it would have worn very quickly and allowed the propeller and shaft to vibrate alarmingly. Curiously, Titanic did suffer from a serious vibration problem on her maiden voyage which was commented on by Lawrence Beesley, a second class survivor of the disaster. Beesley noticed that the vibration from the ship's engines was severe enough to cause his mattress to dance about.
    The Olympic class ships were intentionally designed without longitudinal bulkheads but to stiffen the damaged hull one was installed in Olympic . Dr Robert Ballard, while exploring the wreck of the Olympic class ship on the bottom of the North Atlantic , did find a bulkhead within the vessel, which was not shown on any plan or builder's specification.
    In November 1911 the Olympic , with Titanic's starboard main propeller and shaft, left Belfast to resume her career, though not for long. Even while repair work had been under way on Olympic conversion of Titanic into a reasonable twin of her sister had also begun. After Olympic's maiden voyage J Bruce Ismay, the Managing Director of the White Star Line, had suggested certain improvements for incorporation on Titanic . these had included the fitting of extra cabins on B Deck, which while it had been a promenade deck on Olympic would by completely turned over to cabins and public rooms on her sister. These alterations had been begun before the Hawke incident took place, at least as far as altering the window layout on B deck and probably constructing the cabins there as well. Fortunately, these cabins were built of light weight steel plates and it would not be at all difficult for Harland & Wolff to remove then again; which seems to be what happened. The open promenade areas at the rear end of B Deck on both ships was planned to be considerably longer on Olympic than on Titanic ; so this too required conversion. The B Deck window layout, regularly spaced windows on Olympic and irregularly spaced ones on Titanic , and the length of the aft promenade area on B Deck, long on Olympic and short on Titanic , are important recognition features.
    A Harland & Wolff photograph of Olympic , taken when the vessel was in the Thompson Graving Dock in 1911, clearly shows her to have had a vertical joint in her hull plating immediately forward of the portside anchor hawsepipe. Photographs of Titanic , while still on the stocks and while fitting out in 1911, show that there was no similar joint in her hull plating just ahead of her portside anchor. However, In a picture of Olympic , taken during her 1912/13 refit following the Titanic disaster, shows this vessel not to have the tell-tale plating joint; proving quite conclusively that the hull pictured is that of Titanic although the name Olympic is clearly visible on both sides of the bow.
    Photographs taken of Titanic at Southampton shortly before her maiden voyage show a large area of discoloured plating, as if it had been newly painted with paint that did not quite match the original, in the same location as Olympic's hull was damaged by HMS Hawke .
    As previously mentioned, to make life easier for photographers Olympic's hull was painted white, or very light grey, for her launch. Titanic's hull was never painted light grey at all because as the second vessel of the class she was nothing like as newsworthy when it was her turn to enter the water. Curiously, where rust and marine life have flaked the top layers of paint from the hull of the wreck discovered by Dr Ballard patches of what appear to be white paint are exposed. Of course, white or light grey paint beneath the black topcoat of the hull means that whatever ship the wreck was it definitely was not Titanic .
     
  18. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy (Part 5)

    Titanic was registered on 25 March 1912 at 46,328.57GRT. Titanic had a gross register tonnage that was 1,004.65 GRT greater than that of Olympic . The extra (roughly 1,000) tons were there because of the extra B Deck cabins, Café Parisien and enlarged restaurant, while the same areas on Olympic were open ended promenade deck but with large glass windows protecting passengers from the elements. Gross and net register tonnages were not calculated at the last moment but from measurements taken by Board of Trade inspectors as the ship was being built. Board of Trade inspector Carruthers visited Titanic almost 2,000 times during construction. As the differences between the B Deck layout of the two ships was already largely in place by early September 1911 then Carruthers would have already been well aware that Titanic would eventual finish up with a GRT approximately 1,000 tons greater than her sister. Because harbour dues and such like were calculated on a vessel's GRT it was an offence to understate that tonnage. This presented White Star and Harland & Wolff with a problem. With the GRT of Titanic already known to the Board of Trade they could not pass off the sister ship without bringing her up to something like the same specification, but they simply did not have the time to properly convert the whole of B deck to the same layout as that of Titanic . Nor could they leave Titanic with all of her cabins on B Deck if they wanted to pass her off as Olympic . Alterations to Titanic in order to make her the same in general layout and appearance as Olympic were not too much of a problem because the ship would remain in the yard from the time the decision to switch then was made in about October 1911 until the exchange actually took place in the first week of March 1912. It was not too much of a job to remove the alterations to Titanic's B Deck and convert it back to its original form. On the other hand, they would only have about a month to change Olympic's appearance to that of her sister, from early March 1912 until she was due to leave the yard, as Titanic , to prepare for her maiden voyage.
    Because of the shortage of time the only alterations to Olympic's B Deck that could be completed were the two executive stateroom suites, the enlarged restaurant and Café Parisien. As these alterations noticeably altered the outward appearance of the ship it was essential that they were done in the time available. We know that the rest of the alterations were never carried out because during the sinking a steward walked along B Deck, checking that cabins were empty and locked. As he was carrying out his duties he could see the swung out lifeboats hanging from their davits two decks above, something he patently could not have done had there been cabins between the passageway he was in and the outside of the ship. To make up this shortfall of something like seven hundred Gross Register Tons the forward end of A Deck was enclosed. This work was actually carried out during the very last week that the vessel which sailed as Titanic was still at Belfast ; after the 25 March registration. Only in this way could Olympic be made to match up with Titanic's known GRT. The A Deck windows could not have been installed on Titanic at the last moment because they would have raised her GRT to something over 47,000 tons.
    To put it in its most basic form. You can not add one thousand tons to a 46,000 ton ship and end up with a 46,000 ton ship. The vessel which sailed out of Southampton on 10 April 1912 can only have been a 45,000 ton ship with the last minute addition of 1,000 tons of GRT in her B Deck public rooms and enclosed area on A Deck.
    Titanic's registration document has an interesting hand written note included in it which says , “Note 2. The undermentioned spaces above the upper deck are not included in the cubical contents forming the ship's register tonnage: Open space in front of poop 16 feet long = 65.24 tons. Open space abaft 2 nd class smokeroom, 6 ft long = 15.84 ton. Open space on promenade deck, abreast windows, port side, 198 feet long = 343.27 tons. Open space on promenade deck, abreast windows, starbd side 198 feet long = 377.24 tons.” Of course the spaces referred to are not above the upper deck at all but on A Deck. The document is dated 25 March 1912 . The man responsible for forwarding this document to the Registrar is Harold Arthur Sanderson (WS Manager). The registrar's signature is unreadable. The question is, why are these spaces not to be included in the GRT of the ship. The only believable reason is that they did not actually increase the cubic capacity of the vessel, which in its turn would mean that approximately the same cubic capacity had been lost somewhere else on the ship. Clearly this loss of capacity can not have occurred within the hull of the vessel or it would not have effected the GRT but only the NRT, but the removal of cabins on B Deck turning that area into open ended promenade space would have done so. That these spaces should have been included in the GRT is shown by the fact that they appear on the document at all. Had they been truly open spaces such as the after part of A deck then they would not have merited a mention. As all sorts of charges were calculated on the ship's GRT then it is completely unbelievable that HMG would allow WS to register a ship (any ship) at less than it true, chargeable, cubic capacity
     
  19. CHILLYWILLY

    CHILLYWILLY Active Member

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    The Titanic Conspiracy

    The Titanic Conspiracy(Part 6)

    The explanation put forward for the addition of the A Deck screens was that Joseph Bruce Ismay thought that they would protect promenading first class passengers from spray. A Deck, by the way, was almost fifty feet above the water, with a raised bulwark along its outside edge to protect promenaders and prevent them from toppling overboard before these alterations were envisaged. One can't help wondering just what cosseted first class passengers would be doing on deck in weather that would throw any appreciable amount of spray more than fifty feet in the air. Although Titanic's supposed sister ship sailed the North Atlantic, known for its violent storms, she was never fitted with these passenger protecting screens; and she was the flagship of the White Star Line fleet.
    Only a few items recovered from the wreck have any sort of identification at all on them. One of these items, which in any way indicates that the ship might actually be Titanic is a helm indicator from the stern, or docking, bridge. This does have Titanic's build number on it, 401, but could easily have come from any vessel of the class. Another is a slate slab supposedly from the stewards lavatory on the portside of E Deck; unfortunately detailed drawings of Titanic show no provision for the fitting of any such slate slab was ever made. That Harland & Wolff mixed up parts from one ship with those of another is clearly illustrated by their still pricing items being fitted to Olympic to Titanic's account years after the sinking.
    A section of hull plating recovered from the wreck does show an irregularity in the porthole layout on C Deck that should be peculiar to Titanic . The piece of plating comes from the side of the steward's toilets and has one more small porthole than the corresponding section shown in photographs of Olympic . As we know, the builders were trying to make the external appearance of one ship as similar as possible to that of the other. This extra porthole was cut in the white painted upper part of the hull and it was very visible. As the transformation progressed a new porthole would have been cut as a matter of course. The already existing porthole in the real Titanic would have been sealed up either during the week that the switch actually took place or during the ship's winter refit in at the end of 1912.
    Before the ship known as Olympic was broken up shortly before the Second World War many of her fixtures and fittings were sold off, including the panelling from most of her public rooms. The oak panelling from the first class smoking room is now installed in the conference room of the Swan Hotel in Alnwick, for example. Other panelling from third class areas of the ship now adorn a private flat in the Wirral. This woodwork has the reverse sides clearly marked. On the panels the number 400 is stencilled, but on the frames the number 401 is clearly visible.
    The one item recovered which should have been unmistakably marked, the vessel's crow's-nest bell, has no name or number on it. Normally one would expect to find the ship's name cast into a bell and it is the recovery of these that is usually accepted as proof of identity. In this case it would be no more proof than the helm indicator as such objects can all too easily be moved from ship to ship. As previously mentioned, to the present day the most common maritime insurance frauds involve changing the identities of ships.
    Even the builders model, which looks like Titanic but which began life as Olympic , that is now on display at Liverpool Maritime Museum, has the build numbers of both ships, 400 for Olympic and 401 for Titanic , on different parts. Until this model, which was actually constructed by Harland & Wolff, was converted into a Titanic lookalike on the Museum's instructions it had represented Olympic although fitted with parts obviously intended for a model of her sister. At one time this model was even altered to represent the third sister ship Britannic .
    After the sinking of the ship usually known as Titanic thirteen lifeboats were recovered and taken into New York, before being returned to Britain. While these boats were still at New York they had Titanic's name sanded off and the brass White Star badges and numbers removed, supposedly to deter souvenir hunters. Whilst removing the names and other paraphernalia workers discovered the name Olympic carved into the gunwales. The old name had been filled with putty and painted over. Eventually the boats were returned to Britain and a dozen of them were re-used by the White Star Line to help bring the number of boats aboard the second sister ship up to a level acceptable to the travelling public. Boat number 12, considered at the time to be an unlucky thirteenth was not re-used but lay at Southampton until the end of the first World War. Many local Sea Scouts had joined the Royal Navy on the outbreak of war, and some at least had given their lives for their country. By way of a thank you the thirteenth lifeboat, number twelve, was handed over to the Sea Scouts to use as a cutter. During the eight or nine years the boat had been laid up its appearance had deteriorated somewhat so the Sea Scouts set about tidying it up. They stripped of the old paint and there, cut into the gunwale of the old boat, was the name of Titanic's sister ship, Olympic . This boat was finally wrecked in a collision with the Gosport Ferry at Portsmouth and taken by the Royal Navy to Haslar for demolition. However, for many years afterwards its port and starboard White Star insignia were used as prizes by a local Sea Scout group.
    While making preparations for the blockbuster movie ‘Titanic' the producer, James Cameron, paid a number of visits to the wreck. On one of those visits a small robot submarine equipped with cameras and powerful lights was sent deeper into the interior of the sunken ship that any other had been. The tiny submersible visited the special suite of staterooms that had been occupied on the fateful voyage by Joseph Bruce Ismay. Film taken by the robot showed the Empire style sitting room to be in a remarkable state of preservation with the cast iron fireplace with its veined marble surround to still be in place. Veined marble is a naturally occurring metamorphic crystalline limestone and, like snowflakes and finger prints, no two pieces are the same. However, the marble filmed on the wreck exactly matches that shown in a photograph of the corresponding stateroom aboard Olympic , taken in 1911.

    I would suggest that you now research the several theories put forward as to why?
    ::13:
     
  20. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    A Good yarn, thank you. I will read it and digest, but for now, a word from a most reliable gentleman ....
    A quote from a comment on Ships Nostalgia, from someone that works for Harland and Wolf, and has made a particularly detailed investigation of all works conducted there, together with histories.
    Another gentleman is quite taken with the fact that over 1,300 personnel kept the swap a secret ... forever.
    This conspiracy theory arose because the Olympic returned to Belfast for repairs to her sluice valves which had proved unreliable in service. The vibration from the turbine had caused the mechanism to jam shut. It was decided at the time to take the opportunity to convert her to oil firing and as Titanic was still unfinished White Star decided to retro fit Olympic with Titanic's engines to save time and money. Titanic therefore left Belfast with Olympic's old coal fired boilers and engines which were completely knackered to the extent that she was unable to maintain proper steerage way which resulted in her being unable to avoid the iceberg. To cover things up H&W built a wooden replica on the slipway in order to bluff the insurance company, sadly the ruse was quickly spotted and in order to hide the evidence the wooden fake was taken to Greece for conversion to a cruise liner. Unfortunately the wooden hull became quite soggy and she sank a week or so later.
     

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