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Sweet Dreams Are Made of This

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by tabtab13, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm sure bear didn't take your post the wrong way. He seems to be a sensible member that I'm sure would mention that fact if he felt uncomfortable with a reply.
     
  2. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    @halfhidden, a doozy of a dream, tells me volumes. I have had similar highly detailed dreams, I had them analysed years ago, as I was having serious conflicts emotionally. After that and differences about implanted memories, I found a number of genuine Jungian text books and analysed my dreams. It is only you that knows what is in your head. Everyone has a different 'shorthand' or a different mental joke locked away. The newspaper lists are plain daft, you dreamt of a swan eating a frog, therefore you will meet a handsome structural engineer stuff. Your dream is immense, and a building issue for you. I will not tell you online what it means. But what I will say is that you have a strong sense of self preservation. Like me, things really matter to you. Detail and planning matter. That is a good and healthy dream, by the way.
     
  3. bear

    bear Member

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    Hey Treeve. I didn't take offence mate. I enjoy reading the things you write. I guess I've just got a sarcastic sense of humour. We will meet some day and you will see. With me its what you see is what you get (in real life) . Didn't mean to upset you buddy.

    Bear
     
  4. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Hi, Bear -::15::)
     
  5. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    HH's dream

    Blo*dy Hell HH, - that is some dream ...

    Treeve - I'm curious to know why you think that was a good and healthy dream? If it's been happening before, combined with the fact that Sparky (and her mum) have been ill recently, is it not more of an anxiety dream?

    I've read in the past that if you dream bad things, that's meant to be a good thing - which I've always thought a bit odd.

    In the sense of it representing a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  6. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    If you remember, I mentioned 'persona'. The unseen face behind, with the 'pin on grin' normally seen by the public (or whatever other public face).
    It gets so intense that we ourselves cannot see it, the truth about ourselves.
    Nightmares, particularly ones that wake us up in a panic, are our friends. The subconscious is digging deep in the memory banks of all our recorded images and feelings. It uses what it can on a very basic level to let us know what is not good for us. It uses images, puns, jokes, shorthand.
    We have a group of inner parts, the anima and the animus. It depends on that group of inner friends just how we cope. I have written to Halfhidden in a PM.
    For example... everyone else oblivious were 'in the swim'.
    The point is that once we are having that nightmare, we are at a point where we are listening to the other self.
    You must know what it is like. Daytime, as something happens, you have a fleeting thought, 'that bloke is misusing me, is taking advantage' or 'I wish I was stronger' or 'I really should not have done that'. It is quickly shoved away, until the point is reached that the self screams at you in a dream, because the daytime you is not doing what is best.
    All the old conflicts from what you learned in childhood, the fight or flight mechanism tears you to shreds.
    All the elements are to be seen in Greek Mythology.
    As we slowly wake up from REM sleep, we see something, some truth about our selves that we do not want to admit, and we suddenly wake up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  7. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I may as well mention this point.

    Unfortunately the self becomes aware that the conflict within is not being noticed or acted upon. In your deepest conscience, YOU know what your system needs to fulfill itself. One reason or another, maybe timing, maybe money, maybe other commitments, you do not make that change in your life or actions.

    So, your dreams repeat themselves. The same story, the same scenery.

    There is precious little in dreams that should be ignored. I used to get endless dreams of hearing a scratch at the door. I opened the door, to let a tiny kitten in. It was quickly followed by another, and another, and another .... I could not shut the door. There was the wish to help, but with the problem of hurting a kitten if I stopped or simply shut the door, with the cold air coming in and the insecurity of the house being left open; it was a choice of hurt a kitten or leave the door open with its consequences. So, I began to be more aware in life whan the scratch was at the door. Constantly asked at school for help, it affected my own study, so instead of blindly doing it, I checked into what was asked and tended to 'home business' first. I became less of a soft touch.

    It was at the tender age of 14 that I realised the message in a dream, because those dreams stopped. The frustration within me was gone. Other frustrations came later, other inner conflicts, because I still had the same problem but in other forms. It took years to really deal with dreams and what they are telling me.

    Freud stated it was the purpose of a dream for the self to achieve what it needed (repressed desires) but that falls down when the daytime person remains dissatisfied.

    It was Jung that realised that the dream mechanism does tell the soul what has to be done, rather than act it out in some stage play.

    I have had some fearful dreams that have absolutely nothing to do with acting out my desires. But, they tell me something.
     
  8. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Here is another dream I had - from 2000. One thing I should mention is that at no time have any dreams that I have had happen in an actual place that I have been.

    I am sitting in the cosy front room, red plush Edwardian carpets, deep soft chairs, walls full of bookshelves, warm low lights, all very Edwardian and comfortable. A creak above me. I wonder what that is.... then it happens again. A sound of a book or some other heavy object as it hits the floor above. Then a floor board creaks. The door swings shut and closes. I walk out into the hall to the staicase. Anxiety grips. Who is it, no one else here. I gently grab the moulded mahaogany handrail and creep up the carpeted staircase. It is a dog-leg stairs. At the half landing is an open window. I think perhaps it is the breeze. Another sound and the door of the room opens slightly ajar. I ascend the stairs gingerly. A shadow is seen on the floor. I cannot see who it is. A wheel of an wheelchair, moves into view, through the tiny slit of the door jamb. Who can it be? I wonder anxiously. How did he/she get up here? I began to feel a sense of menace, a fear of the unknown ...

    I reach the top of the stairs and as I approach the door, the door slams shut fiercely and with the most enormous bang. It is now locked. I cannot get in, the keyhole is blocked. I now need to find out who it is. I decide to climb out of the window and peer into the room's window. It is cold out on the ledge. Windy. As I reach the other window the whole wall explodes taking me to the ground. I awake then.

    I know what it means, but can you tell me?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  9. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    These are all interesting and fascinating replies - so I'm glad I started this thread.

    As for your dream, treeve, no real idea what it's all about, but at a guess, I say it was a good thing, based on what you said about the dream HH had.

    Strange to read the description of the house - as that's the kinda place I sort of imagined you living in. Old, lots of wood, a Grandfather clock ticking away in the background and lots of books and reference maps dotted around the place.
     
  10. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    The bigger the problem to face, the more detail in the dream, your ego is drawing on every resource possible to paint the picture. The more you see, the closer you are to realising what the animus and anima are telling; occasionally your male side and your female side will show themselves as characters, sometimes they will be wearing 'a mask' - very often the mind uses shorthand. Some personality that you fear or respect, or like about yourself is portrayed by an image of your girl friend, your mother, sister, teacher, father ... This was the problem with Freudian dream analysis. It saw the Oedipus complex (which may or may not exist) in every dream with the mother in it, or some other sexual connotation. All dream images are drawn by synapses from the brain's own sources, they are expressing a part of your Self. However, there is more to the id than 'meets the eye'. I will say more of that if you like. That is the wonder of Jungian Symbols and Synchronicity ....

    I may as well tell you that I have one animus and four anima, each one is a clearly defined 'person', I have started painting images of them. They are the same each time, but in different numbers. Sometimes one, occasionally all four. The animus rarely shows.

    To the dream ... yes, imagine me in those circumstances, it is as close as I will get. It is the world I seek, I guess. But, sitting quietly to realise there is another? A threat. A hidden threat, above? This is the basic amygdala asking if there is a threat ... the realisation ... that the other self within the same body is disabled, yet insular? It does not want to be seen, at all? I was not allowed to see this person, because that would be like looking into the spritual mirror. Whenever there is a locked door, closed portal, blinded by light, hidden by a rock fall ... That is the ego not wishing to accept the truth. Fear of the self locks in. 'I can't do this'.

    Total fear of the Self and of what it is capable. Here is where the basic fight or flight comes in, going back to the days of bears and wolves, self preservation in its rawest state. So, in not seeing the disabled me, I did not allow myself to accept that I was weak and powerless. That is Good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  11. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    id

    As I said, there is more to the id than meets the eye. There are times in our lives when we are unable to reach that depth of sleep, that REM moment, where were are totally immersed in a dream. Our senses still work. As the dream unfolds, a sound in the street is folded into the story, a slight adjustment to make sense of what we perceive. Then there is that terrible moment when the mind is slightly awake, but the body is not. You lie there, wrapped in sheets, stifling sheets, tied down, Your legs will not move, terror grips. Panic takes over and you awake in a blind sweat.

    Another is the annoyance that in your dream you are holding on to something you have found, or were given - only when we awake, the fist is empty. A simple proof that muscles work in our dream state.

    In that moment when you are approaching or leaving the REM state, the conscious is still mulling over the tragedy, the powerful fear of what tomorrow will bring, so the brain has two sets of images to fold together. It HAS to make sense to the ego. Deep below that is the id, which has another set of priorites. To educate the whole into doing what is right. Rather like an iceberg, the top ice is what we see, below water line is the ego, below that is the superego, and deep below in the ocean is the id. You cannot see this but know it is there.

    A while back I was deeply troubled by the fact that the son of a dear friend was killed in a motor accident. My friend phoned me and told me that she woke up every night crying for her dead son. That night, I dreamt. I was walking through a large park, calling her son's name, anxiously looking everywhere. It was dark with rain clouds, the sun was going down fast, it was getting cold. I thought I saw something move in the bushes. My pace increased, as I walked across the grass, all of a sudden the ground just dropped from under my feet. I fell instantly. It was an earth tunnel, vertical drop. I was enclosed in a wall of choking soil dust. I could see nothing but the wall of the shaft - it was a matter of an inch or two bigger than my body. If I touched the sides, it would have broken my fingers. I descended further, deeper, faster, more earth followed, I was being buried, but only speed stopped the build up of earth on me. I remember asking myself, could I grab a root as it passed, but realised that would be fatal, as I would be buried under all the soil. I peered down below my feet, as I sped on downwards. There was a bend in the shaft. A rock in the way. I am going to be crushed. But I bounced to one side and found myself in a vast cavern, at ceiling level, floating, staring down at the most incredible scene. The earth had gone. I was in no danger .... but what is that below? There are three alcoves, lit with green light. It was hundreds of feet below. I was also now noticing a group of tall glass structures, I cannot remember the number, must have been 12 x 7 in grouping, pyramidal in shape, but very high for its base. They were filled with radiant colours, changing from red through indigo. I was suddenly aware that as beautiful as this was, I was in danger of falling on to these points and being killed. The sense of floating was then gone. I was about to drop. I warm wind swept the cavern, in a gust rather like that when a train approaches in an underground station; it took me and I was placed on a small ledge in a side cave. I woke up in a state of relief and yet panic as to how I could climb up to the park again.
     
  12. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    What I'm finding particularly interesting is that anxiety seems to be the common theme in the dreams posted, in the sense of being in anxious situations. Do you think that is a reflection of us as individuals who have posted or more of a collective thing as Mankind?

    Are happy, inspiring dreams a rarity? And what do those types of dreams tell us about the individual?

    I'm wondering how much it has to do we how we live our lives today (and in previous generations). Early man seemed to have less things to worry about - ok, we don't have to worry about eat or be eaten as they did, but other than that, there was food, shelter and 'tribal politics' to contend with, and I guess fear of the unknown such as eclipses, lightning etc. Or am I over simplifying it?

    Today we seem to be riddled with anxiety, and more often that not, over trivial or unimportant matters in the great scheme of things. Not trivial in the sense of how it feels to the particular individual feeling anxious about something - there just seems to be a lot more things to get anxious over. A doctor once told me that anxiety and stress are good things (in relative moderation) - we need them to survive.

    There have been times during the day when I've been anxious and stressed out about something, followed by a night of dreaming of anxious and stressed out situations. I guess the answer is to identify what is the root of it, address it, resolve it and move on. It's almost like your conscious and sub conscious are at war with each other on an intellectual level. "Look" says your sub conscious to your conscious, "I'm showing you what the problem is - are you too stupid to understand?"
     
  13. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    reality?

    If you have never watched Forbidden Planet, then you have missed a classic; a voyage into the mind, in a way. It's plot is essentially that of The Tempest, a Shakespeare voyage into the crevices of the Psyche. It illustrates pefectly the world of Freudian Fear taken to its absolute power. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    I was confronted with something that was beyond my own understanding, it frightened me to distraction. Years ago, life was not as I would wish, that is all I will say. I was tired and fed up to the extreme. Sitting in a room, I would suddenly become aware of a dark shadow peering from the around the corner of the side of the settee. It was not helped by the strange noises. It was small and an evil looking character, crept around on haunches. I dismissed it as a figment of my imagination. But daily it appeared, in odd places, peering from behind cupboards, it followed me everywhere, in the home and in the office. It even appeared in broad daylight in a carpark. It was dark and menacing. I cannot say that I have ever seen the like before, but it resembled a dwarf of Grimm's with (now in hindsight) the face of an Orc as in the Ring films. This creature appeared around 1998. It became worrying. I mentioned this to a friend, half aware that the men in white coats could be coming for me. My friend was deeply concerned, for a number of reasons. 'You could be spirited away by them' was one. 'Let me deal with them' A prayer was offered 'Nam-myoho-renge-kyo' is very much a part of my friend's life and belief. Next morning I had an excited telephone call.... 'Those dark shadows came to me in my sleep, last night.... I told them, what are you doing here? You are not my creatures, go on get out. Don't you bother me or Raymond again, the cheek of it, go on get out.' I have not had another visitation since. Whether or not they were a figment of imagination or a creation of the id, I do not know, but the curtain between the two is very fine, especially as I was fully awake at the time.

    It is the same with dreams and certain 'real people' from your life in your dreams; not all people in dreams are to be seen as representative of some aspect of the ego or id. Some are there because they are on your mind, some are there for some other worldly reason.
     
  14. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I don't do happy

    @tabtab13 - If you consider the reason for learning in the first place, is one for self preservation and of what we hold dear. Everything is observed and recorded, for future reference - the information will become useful in some future situation, conflict or threat. As time marches on, as you say, some idiots change the rules, and we are not correctly programmed for response to those situations. The Ego is threatened but puts on a brave face ... the id on the other hand KNOWS it is risky ground. Anxiety. Followed by health problems, more anxiety ... Yes we get some happy dreams, but they are rarer, because 'what is the point' asks the id. What is to learn?
    This is one issue with some people who say, why do I need to bother with learning? And don't. The price is paid, hence annoyance and aggression rise at the frustration. There is a conflict then between the need to learn, with the idle b*stard, as well as the conflict of having to learn new tricks in this modern world that are not geared to what the mind has to learn to survive. Nice tricks micro electronics, but it does not help me against bear attack. Yes your doctor is right about anxiety and stress, vital, in the same way it is important to practice a long time before tackling the marathon. There are a whole series of chemical processes in the body which must be switched on. Your last paragraph is exactly what is going on. Too many people bottle it all up, hide it away, 'Dad told me not to be a big girly' stuff. More anxiety, more inadequacy feelings not of our doing. Talk about things. It is fine, we have all been there.
     
  15. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    Here's another couple of dreams I've remembered that I've had on more than one occasion.

    I'm in a place I know well, say Penzance for instance, and I've got to get from A to B. I set off fine, but then find the roads or streets to get me there aren't there anymore or 'don't look right' or are not where I expected them to be. I think to myself, not to worry, I can go this way instead, but that doesn't work out either. There is usually a time factor involved and I start to worry that I'm never going to get there.

    The other dream is almost the opposite of this. I'm in a place I've never been before, but somehow it seems very familiar. In one such dream, I went up a hill where there were a group of houses - they were not isolated up there, nothing out of the ordinary about them, just fairly big houses on a hill. I was drawn to one in particular and I remember there was a lot of green involved - the front door was green the window frames painted green, etc. I should mention at this point, I was on my 'invisible snowboard' as mentioned in a previous post - and there was no stress or anxiety going on.

    I stand in front of this house, and I know in my dream I have never been there before, but somehow I just seem to know it so well. And within my dream, I actually asked myself if perhaps I had some connection to it in a previous life, perhaps I'd lived there, visited it or knew someone who had lived there. I stand in front of it for a while, and then I'm off back down the hill on 'my 'snowboard'.

    Sounds to me like I'm looking for something that doesn't exist but I think should, perhaps? Or through my life's journey so far, I'm looking for something, but not sure what?

    Thoughts on what the house symbolises and why I think I know it and have been there before?
     
  16. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    First dream, nowt to get worried about ... basic 'lost' - could relate to daily events, or more likely the mind unsure what to find to use to point you in the right direction. The memory contains millions of events, not all access routes are signposted, or if they were, life has made you forget. Or it may be the brain has overworked and cannot be bothered to find that picture, or thought.

    Second dream contains personal references, houses and green ... the fact of the invisible snow board indicates quite simply your basic desire to be free of the earthly trappings. Without the menace or fear element. Colours may be personal or related to Colour Theory in Meditation; it is known that certain colours radiate from Aura and Chakras. Think about your own experience with green first. I have used colour in meditation, so, if you cannot think of anything, let me know.

    You are now entering that other realm of dreams. Why do we see things in dreams that we have never personally experienced?
     
  17. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    Can't say I have big affinity as such with green, treeve - favourite colours tend to be more rich yellows and oranges.

    It obviously made an impression in the dream (I don't recall having any others where colour was a focus point, other than in dreams where I'm in a really sunny day and the sky is a bright blue - but that's more of a 'background' colour to the dream).

    I have a theory, so here goes. I've always associated Penzance as 'home'. even when I was living away. I would always say "I'm going home for my holidays" as an example. As we get a lot of rain here, Cornwall is pretty green. So the house represents home and green represents Cornwall.

    Where this comes unstuck is, why was my attention drawn to the windows and door in the first place? Doors and windows let things in, but they also keep things out.

    Going back to green, at this time of year I'm checking out plants, whether in the garden or out on walks, looking for signs of new green growth, and Spring just around the corner.

    Possibly this is in the dream as well? It could be looked at in two ways. One, that after a long, cold winter, there's still life in the plants and they start to grow again. Symbolising that Life goes on and the house in the dream represents life.

    Or two, plants are 'reborn' in the spring and 'start' life again. And in this case, the house represents a new start - deep down I know that's what is needed and the reason I scoot off down the hill again means I'm not quite ready for that.

    I don't know - I have nothing solid to back up those ideas, they are, just literally thoughts - so put me right if I'm way off course here!
     
  18. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    You specifically say the door was green, no mention of greenery directly. The door is not naturally green, though plants may be. Same is true of window frames, they have to have been painted. Symbolically the door could represent the way into the inner self, the windows offering a view of that same. The houses could be a representation of former places (not necessarily house, perhaps state of mind or being) that you have had. Previous Selves? A more careful self, a less concerned self .... perhaps your mind stores them for reference? 'I can't deal with this' so you slope off ...

    Green is attached to the Heart, it attends to the more compassionate side of you, it means that you are capable of unconditional love more than many. That is the state to be attained from Love as described in The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran. Green has negatives...indifference, bitterness and jealousy. It is up to you to inwardly look to see if any of those are in you. They can be ousted by drawing in other colours to your being. I don't know if you have ever considered Light and its power when in a Meditative State.

    From a Jungian point of view, it does not stop at dreams ....
     
  19. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    The human mind has the most impressive visual appreciation and spacial creation set up ever. CAD/VGA eat your heart out. It not only has the massive memory bank of stored data, it can source that and create a visual impression of the unseen object. That is how the average designer works. It has to be envisaged before it is presented on a sheet of paper and made. This is what Meditation and Visualisation is all about. We can create this elusive nirvana. Purple mountains, silver brooks with swimming red and blue carp, a kingfisher dives from a branch overhanging the rocks, The sun is lowering behind the gold and purple clouds ....... you get the picture ..... That is what makes a good book. Pictures and stories unfold in your mind. This ability developed from being able to 'forecast' just what should be in that cave..... again, survival kit. So, in your dreams the self feels threatened, so uses this 'picture technique' to conjure up images that seek to inform and protect. BUT, is it that simple?

    Why does the mind conjure up whole houses, with gardens, fountains, trees, plants, pathwways ... all too elaborate to tell you not to be so stupid next time you leave the car door open. Why does
    the mind conjure up people you have not seen before? Sometimes objects not seen before, some not of any known design or purpose? Could it be that you HAVE seen them before, rather than the
    stretching of cranial resources? Are these handed down memories passed through the generations. Does this explain deja vu? Have we been re-born as some would have it? Are there less souls than
    bodies? What do you think?

    The 'reality' is that we often see places that we have never 'seen'. People of no familiar face enter our dreams. They are not all simply there to guide us through the mystery as it unfolds. I have said that in that half dream state we allow the conscious to bring its friends and relatives that we are concerned about, as well as those that our subconscious brings in because they impart a message about our own character. I wondered just why I kept seeing regular faces that I had not seen before, until I read in greater detail of Jungian Imagery. For some reason my mind had 'created' those people as guides, people whom I could trust. This is common.

    There are other 'issues' about which I had serious doubts, until it happened to me.
     
  20. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Colour and Light

    I have mentioned the power of Light - there is a fallacy promoted on the internet. It is quite useless and possibly damaging to some skins and eyes, especially to the young child.
    It's 'Therapy' consists of 'bathing' in the filtered light from lamps, to obtain brilliance and colour. This only affects the skin. Badly at that.

    True Light Therapy is in the Mind.
    Find a comfortable seated position, The Lotus Position is favoured by many, but if it is not possible for musculoskeletal reasons, find a small stool and/or cushion or bean bag. It is important to be comfortable and the back upright. It is vital to follow these steps. You will have to remain in this position for some time, quietly and without disturbance or distraction. Generally 15 minutes should do it, but the last thing on your mind should be the ticking of the clock. Some people favour the use of a concentrating mantra or even music, such as the Tibetan singing bowls. You may have things on your mind, it is doubted that anyone in the Western World is otherwise.

    Just relax, find a comfortable position, knowing you will have to remain in this position, the idea is that constant shifting and movement will remove the concentration. This is not a forced concentration, a relaxed focus on what you will picture in the mind.
    Whatever worries you may have will be there afterwards, so there is no point in carrying them with you into the Colour Meditation.

    Begin to reach down deep through your being into the ground below, feel the roots grow into the ground reaching down to the centre of the Earth. You will then become Grounded, a vital state to achieve.
    You will release Light Energy in your thoughts, in your being, it is vital to be Grounded.

    Sit with your hands to your Solar Plexus, just below your diaphram, the hands are held so the that fingers form a heart shaped hole, your fingers facing downwards.

    Think about the Sky, the source of Light. Your eyes are closed, loosely. The Light builds, you channel it in your mind, bring it into your Solar Plexus, through the heart shaped 'hole'. Draw it up through your body (in your mind). Up it goes along your spine and up into your head. Push out the colour not needed, the one that is providing negatives, send it deep into the skies. This all takes concentration of the quietest nature.

    If there is a colour that you find is empty, then the pattern of Visualisation has to change to draw in the missing colour and send only white light from your head.

    When filled, leave your mind and postion as is, for a little while, don't just open your eyes and rush off for a coffee. You need to mentally withdraw the roots from the ground first, so you will be free again to be on the Earth. Then you may open your eyes, and re-enter the physical world.

    It sounds 'oddball' and 'way off' but I promise you it works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010

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