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National Health Service vs Local Health

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by treeve, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    How Healthy is the Service that you are getting?

    This debate was started on denanmor's picture of the Health Area Office c1955.
    It seemed much better to debate this in Forum ...
    The debate so far...

    Halfhidden [Jul 05, 2009 at 12:16 AM]
    I left one of those surgeries that have announced an amalgamation. I feared that the surgery was putting patients lives at risk. I spent two years writing to tell them of basic mistakes that should be investigated..... In return I got several lovely letters about how wonderful they are doing, and how satisfied their patients are. Eventually after advise from members of of family (all of whom are in the NHS and the lowest ranking is a State registered nurse (matron to you and I)) anyway, I moved. I am at a new surgery and my New doctor did the usual MOT on me and then did some basic checks on my family based on my 9 year old condition. I should add at this point that this is normal practice with surgeries, but with the one I left they didn't do basic checks. In fact not one member of my family had review despite being on medication that had strict review rules.
    Anyway the long and short of it... If I hadn't moved surgeries one member of our family wouldn't be here now!
    I hope this new surgery amalgamation corrects this kind of slap dash surgery system that my family had to endure for three years. You can rest assure, I have made a formal complaint !!

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 12:26 AM]
    Current Medical systems rely on a co-existing partnership actually with the patient - pro-active patients are able to get better attention and better results, because of the input of personal experience of the ailment. The Doctor does not have to rely on the top twenty lists for diagnosis and for treatment. I make sure that I prepared a diary of feelings, experiences, blood pressure readings, etc, etc. I ensures the doctor has a check list (which they appreciate) and it saves the patient having to try and remember just what it was that they had to say in the first place. Be Aware, Think, Write it out clearly. Since I moved to another surgery, it has been perfect. The previous doctor lived in the old world and did not like patients that asked questions or offered statements. Well - remember this .. It is your body.

    Halfhidden [Jul 05, 2009 at 12:31 AM]
    Am I to deduce that you also experienced poor medical attention from a local doctors surgery (likely but not necessarily one of the four due to amalgamate) to the point that you moved surgeries?

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 12:53 AM]
    My doctor did not listen to me, was clearly wanting me to get out within my alotted 8 minutes, hurried over to the desk, scribbled out a prescription and said, I want you to take these ... No explanation of what they were, what they did, what side effects, etc ...
    They turned out to be diuretics, not without some serious side effects; Having rushed to the surgery (because I was late having had two very strong black coffees whilst discussing a situation on site) it was not surprising that my blood pressure was high - I get 'white coat syndrome' in any case. I was furious at being treated as if I was an idiot, willing to take into my body something that was not explained or necessary. I changed surgeries. Best move I made ... the man listens and comes up with the goods - he remembers things from months past we discussed. Intelligent.

    Halfhidden [Jul 05, 2009 at 01:19 AM]
    WOW! 8 minutes.... you had it made! January the surgery I left started a triage scheme. To them it meant that they could sort out the most needed patients. To the Patients it meant that they can no longer see the doctor. Apparently 12 people leave this surgery a day on averaged.
    I cannot count the amount of times that my family have made an appointment and been told that a nurse will do...... get to the appointment and told by the nurse that she isn't qualified to assist.... and I'll make an appointment for you to see a doctor.
    On one occasion a junior nurse sent away a member of my family because she thought the doctors was mistaken. He/She was due to give a blood sample after a 12 hour fast. Got to the surgery to be turned away by the nurse (who was just a phlebotomist, come to think of it that's not even a nurse).
    Later it turned out that the cancelled appointment was crucial to his/her health. Later they suffered heart problems that required an operation. This would have been discovered earlier on if the phlebotomist hadn't pulled rank on the doctor.
    Don't start me on this......I have real issues with this surgery.
    Our new surgery is superb. We can ask to, and get to see the doctor. We can ask for a repeat prescription and get it. When we see the phlebotomist she remembers who she is and what level she is qualified to conduct her practice.
    Hell in our last surgery it was so often the case that nobody was at reception the patients organised themselves........ I cannot begin to impress on you how likely this practice we left is likely to have a fatality due to professional misconduct.

    Halfhidden [Jul 05, 2009 at 01:37 AM]
    I have a lot to say about the practice I left.... but shouldn't..... it's a little bit like R.E.M. "I've said too much, I haven't said enough" But when your new doctor say's to you.... "oh my god why are you on these"? "Long term they are known to cause Parkinsons, how long have you been on them"? and I reply 10 years.... you get a little upset!
    Look I'm going to get off this subject if that's ok with you.... It's turned me a bit negative and the subject of this practice has turned me quite bitter........ and that's not what the site is about. Anyway, I should consider the other patients who know no better and take the advise, treatment and general malpractice in their daily stride.... my thoughts are with them.
    Good to let off a bit of steam though.... Boy I feel better already!

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 01:51 AM]
    It is good to have a rant ... so long as it does not become an obsession and is distracting and/or something which causes the individual more stress than is a sensible level. All I know is that now I can choose which doctor to see, when to see them within a rota/diary. I usually can see any doctor within an hour (often my specific doctor), a choice the next day, or my specific doctor 2 or three days time. Since I am aware enough, I do not leave it until the emergency services are on call. Another case where pro-active is necessary for yourself. My wife was once prescribed a drug. As is usual with me, I look and inspect and search; I discovered it was the same drug she was on and two doses of that would have fried her then. With care and with some excellent websites, we do not need to be experts, but can read, write and ask. Certainly I would not do not advise taking medication on your own ... just ask - they will answer.

    welb1931 [Jul 05, 2009 at 01:56 PM]
    sounds to me as if the national health service is gone to pot !!

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 02:21 PM]
    The National Health Service has only recently laid out the guidelines which are enacted by my 'new surgery'. It is the other surgeries that are failing the patients. Also it has to be remembered that for a momentary lapse of reason, we have separate health trusts, who basically cannot be trusted to look after chickens, let alone patients. Too many chiefs, too many non-qualified in health terms on their controlling boards - the staff are fine, but controls from the top are based on performanace and costs. There was a time when we had a word 'Service' in many areas of society - that word and object has been dropped. It is therefore more important for the patient to become pro-active, and this present government has recognised that fact and have advised the public so to do.

    welb1931 [Jul 05, 2009 at 03:07 PM]
    Did I read this right that they no longer administer heart "repair" work to patients over 59 years of age ? because of costs !! I believe I read this on line a few days ago in relation to a proposed national service in this country which I dont think will work....

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 03:39 PM]
    If that is the case, then I am stuffed ... but there are two sides to this ...
    On one side there is pressure from some trusts for economy and effectiveness in treatment in relation to costs. Performance related.
    On the other side .. do not believe everything you read in the popular press. It is largely media hype to gain readership from the gullible populus. This obviously needs clarification of some kind, but I have discovered that behind each newspaper or TV report lies a grain of truth (and you can take that anyway you like as to my deliberately ambiguous meaning).

    welb1931 [Jul 05, 2009 at 03:54 PM]
    I was curious on reading that, my wife who underwent triple bypass a few years ago suffered another heart attack back in february she had a stent placed in her heart to open up a 95% blockage in a cardiac blood vessel...we were thinking of a trip across the pond next year,
    when one reads of such it causes one to maybe reconsider the visit to the homeland !!

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 03:59 PM]
    Actually this is a fascinating debate, probably one best continued in the Forum section.
    I remember listening to Radio Bucarest in 1977, a country driven by ideals that have changed, but then, along with other countries, they were very high on profilactic treatment and in health & fitness; it is only now that Britain is seeing prevention as well as care.
    The NHS has been raised phoenixwise by the later efforts of present government from the embers and ashes of a previous regime. Just remember that when the media slams the NHS. There are many reasons why health is in general decline. But I do not lay that fact at the doorstep of the NHS, some surgeries, yes. But, the patient has to learn to not be complacent and cud-chewing - get out there and say something and/or do something.

    ================
    So, what is your experience?
    What is your take on it?
    Are you happy with the service you are getting - if not, tell everyone.
    If you are happy - tell everyone ......
     
  2. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Continued ....

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 04:02 PM]
    @welb1931 - just where did you read that and what was the source quoted?

    welb1931 [Jul 05, 2009 at 04:18 PM]
    This came from e-mail comparing health care between Canada, UK and the United States...in Canada there is a waiting period even to see a specialist doctor as was stated the same in the UK and a waiting time to receive treatment. I believe most people here are against the proposed health service by the government, I know not of the actual source of the e-mail....

    treeve [Jul 05, 2009 at 04:24 PM]
    Quick reaction from the purpose behind the email is that it appears political .. I will check into that later when I get a chance - thank you. I am about to set up a Forum Thread on this subject.
     
  3. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I have written to the Department of Health at 6pm on Sunday 5th July 2009,
    concerning the question of heart repair procedures and the age limit of 59 claimed.
     
  4. Penzancemaid

    Penzancemaid

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    You don't hang about!
     
  5. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    ::18: Me, I am not bats ...
    @welb1931 - You mention waiting to see a specialist. My personal experience as far as arthritis was concerned was that I waited three weeks for the first appointment (in St Austell, bearing in mind that fact that I could barely walk at that time) - I received X-Ray pictures as I had requested them, as well as a written report, of blood analysis, etc,.
    I was not entirely satisfied with the original verbal assessment, so I asked my doctor for another specialist; the appointment was a week later; I had a detailed written report and analysis (anyone can - just ask for it); that was all a matter of 7 years ago. Waiting time now is much less.
    13 weeks from inception to completion is considered abnormal if not less than 12 weeks. That includes operations for heart. Considering there are over 75,000 heart operations per year. Over the last 12 years or so there are 38,000 more doctors. To my mind one of the greatest men that ever lived was Aneurin Bevan.
    What we have in this country is the best. Any other country and I would probably be homeless, starving and dying in my present situation.
     
  6. welb1931

    welb1931 Member

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    My wife suffered a silent type of heart attack whilst in a charity bowling match
    she had bowled just one game and had to sit out the rest of the game the brunt came with the cold weather a few days later, her breathing showing signs of
    distress I took to emergency she received a stent within 24 hours thats fast on the
    other hand a while ago I had a hernia I went into hospital at 7 am and was home at
    2pm same day from seeing the doctor and having the surgery about seven days I even drove my car next day with no ill effects...they are very quick here, I certainly
    hope theres no government interference that would end that type of service
     
  7. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I am gratified to read that you have both had such a good result, what I am wondering, if you care to share the information, is just what the cost was; I have no doubt at all as to the health service that is available, but some form of comparison is necessary, I feel. I have heard that there is a health insurance (compulsory) and that it is all paid out of that? How much is that? Tell me to MYOB if you do not care to share that information. For the UK over 60 means all manner of treatments and benefits, is that true in Canada?
     
  8. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorry to have missed this... been busy with SEO all day.... and going bloody blind ::6: Anyway good thread.... I have so much to add to this thread that it worries me.... I will eventually let the cat out of the bag and get myself sued.
    I just want to say this....I'm not at all medically trained... not even to a domestic level, but I know when things are wrong. What upsets me..... is that sweet little old granny who is next to see the doctor and is given some pills and sent on her way.
    Please don't think all doctors are like this, because they aren't..... just the ones who struggle to control their pratice and too proud to get professional help.
    I am proud of one thing though..... I told a gp something that they didn't know (should have known) and it took them a whole year to try to prove me wrong....guess what, yep I was right. Sad thing is.... I'm not qualified.
    Good luck with this thread. Further more, I saved a patient from some considerable discomfort!

    Can I ask members not to mention individual (patient names or practitioners) and please don't mention practising surgeries. ::15:
     
  9. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    No one needs to be qualified in order to have an opinion ... however it is better to be able to have in informed opinion. That is how I managed to sort out my inflammation problem with my joints. Everyone is different and does not react in the same way to medication of various forms and names. I read through all manner of rather deep and seriously written theses, discussion papers and medical journals before I discovered precisely what was going on; the fact was that my joints were not reacting to the arthritis in the 'normal way'. After I had put it all together it made perfect sense, and after I had sorted this out with my doctor - he was delighted, as it meant that I did not have to risk my system with nsaids, painkillers, blood pressure tablets, diuretics, et al - I simply stopped the inflammation in its tracks, and since then there has been nothing that I could not handle for a few days. The point I am making is that we NEED to be aware, and discuss. Not all misdiagonoses are down to the medical profession. They simply do not have time to do what I did, which was three months investigation and collating of data. Anything new that helps you will help them, and then others.
     
  10. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Acknowledgement of case DE00000427625 received by the Department of Health.
    Reply forthcoming within 20 days, reportedly.
     
  11. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Department of Health REPLY just received ....
    'Dear Mr Forward,
    Thank you for your email of 5 July to the Department of Health about NHS cardiac services. I have been asked to reply.
    I can confirm that there is no truth to the claim that the NHS is no longer offering heart repair procedures to those aged over 59 years. Treatment is provided on the basis of clinical need.
    I hope this reply is helpful.
    Yours sincerely,
    Louise Marks
    Customer Service Centre
    Department of Health'

    So there you are, a false statement for political gain and for the defamation of the best Health System in the world.
     
  12. Penzancemaid

    Penzancemaid

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    Well done, thankyou for the info.
     
  13. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    In a sick twist of irony I write this thread reply almost a year to the day I first posted it!
    You'll note that I'm critical about a particular medical practice in our area of which my entire family were patients. I've since left the practice for fear of our medical safety. I cannot name the practice but am considering reporting them to the GMC.
    Other than the lost medical records, miss diagnostics and the complete medical history of my eldest son disappearing! The fact that it was very difficult to make an appointment to see a GP as they operated an on the day only appointment scheme (the meant an hour scrum on the phone at 08:30 when the lines opened and then the engaged tone until 10am). Other than the fact that this practice actively prevents you from seeing your, or for that fact any GP without having first sat at home and waited for the GP to ring you back and ask you why you want to see them... they then decide if you should see a GP or a nurse!
    A member of my extended family decided to stay with the surgery because he trusted and bonded with his GP. Well that may well have proven to be a bad decision.
    He complained of a saviour soar throat and rang the surgery, they rang back and despite his insistence to see a GP they refused and said he could see a nurse instead. Well as he was in great pain he took the appointment. The nurse diagnosed tonsillitis, and he disagreed, the nurse insisted that she knew more about this than him as she was a qualified nurse.... and so he went on to tell her that he had his tonsils removed when he was a child.
    Now that in it's self is bordering on misdiagnosis as she should be looking at the tonsils to ascertain if they are swollen at at that point would have noticed them not there! He was told it was just a cold and then sent packing. Some days later he rings up again and then insisted on seeing a doctor. They refused and booked him a nurse. This time the nurse diagnosed mumps, he told her that he had mumps many years ago and didn't think you could get it twice. The nurse insisted that that wasn't true. He also complained about his neck and that a lump had appeared. The nurse took a swab from him to have it diagnosed to prove that he had mumps and sent him on his way. Turns out, that the results came back to the surgery and they couldn't be bothered to pass the results on to the patient. This I know because I have had plenty of arguments with this surgery because they have a policy. If the results come back fine we don't tell you. This is a dangerous policy and one of the reasons I removed my family from the practice. Because the mumps swab came back fine they simply forgot about him and no follow up was booked. 6 weeks later and still unaware of his mumps results he's still feeling ill. He rings the surgery and insists on seeing a doctor.... this time he was very insistent and because they refused he walked down to the surgery and basically sat in the waiting room and told the receptionist that he will see a doctor and the only way they could get rid of him otherwise is to call the police.
    Well he got to see a doctor. The doctor took one look at his neck and throat and diagnosed probable cancer. He definitely has tumours and has since had a biopsy (results soon). We know how quickly you need to move to keep cancer at bay, this practice has policies that puts it's patients lives at risk!!

    Please remember no names of practices, no doctors names or patient names can be posted up on this site for legal reasons
     
  14. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    The complaints seem to be more oriented towards a medical surgical business practice, rather than aimed at the National Health Service per se. To be honest I do not have any doubts as to their authenticity, given the source, and given the fact that such events are not outside of my own experience in distant past. It is vital however to take an active part in your own diagnosis. Be more pro-active in assessment and in learning about your particular problem. However do not rely entirely on web advice or that handy tome from the bookshelf. For every symptom, there are thousands of permutations of cause; for every curative drug, there are countless side effects, a great deal of them quite normal and quite safe. Take an informed and balanced view.
     
  15. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    I've just had a phone call from a dear friend who's husband also goes to this very same surgery. Her husband had been complaining about muscle fatigue and pains in the chest for over 7 years. This practice told him there was nothing to worry about. His chest pains got worse and he thought he was having a heart attack but the surgery told him that if he could feel the pulse in his arm (take his own pulse) then he isn't having a heart attack and not to worry!
    Not the best advise to give an 74 year old who has recently had a severe stroke and suffered memory loss.
    I've just learned he was walking up the road in pain and decided to take his own pulse and accidentally walked in to a scaffold and has suffered bad head injury (5 stitches) and was unconscious at the scene.
    He had the stitches done at the hospital and sent home. This weekend the pains in the chest got worse and so He was asked to attend the out of hours doctors surgery held at West Cornwall Hospital as his normal surgery was closed.
    Now bearing in mind that he uses the same surgery that we once did, the same one as my parents did and we all moved because we considered their practice to be ..... well one step from death!
    He walked in to the out of hours surgery and in one glance the doctor immediately admitted him before he had even examined him.
    The out of hours doctor could not believe that he had been suffering from this for 7 years and his surgery hadn't done anything about it.
    He is now on his way to Deryford for a heart bypass operation.
    Will this surgery ever get investigated?
     
  16. Halfhidden

    Halfhidden Untouchable Staff Member Administrator

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    You might be interested to learn this
    back last year I said this
    I know the answer to this and here we go.
    This trend started in the Midlands some years ago and is now being considered as illegal in some local authority areas.
    Getting the patient to see the nurse rather than the doctor seems to be all the craze down here. I thought at first this was because the surgery wanted to keep appointments open so that doctors could deal with the most needed. Well it may surprise you to learn that there is an alternate motive for this.
    Since GP's have had a pay change some years ago, part of the change was to take the out of hours system from the surgeries and put in place a private company to do the out of hours. As you know doctors use to do this themselves. Well since then practices have lost income because surgeries were once paid by how many patients they had. With the new out of hours service something had to give in order to pay the new service. So practices are no longer paid by how many patients they have... rather how often they are seen.
    Now here's the interesting bit. As I have understood this new scam (I think I can call it that safely) if a patient rings up and you make them see a practice nurse even though that is not the most suitable person to see it doesn't matter. The surgery is paid once because you've been seen by the practice already... I know it was a nurse and they said I can't help you I'll get the doctor.... because as soon as they get the doctor you've now been seen twice and now the practice can charge the NHS twice for an appointment whereas if you saw the GP they would only get one payment....
     
  17. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Stroke

    I have just had an experience that I hope will not repeat itself. A stroke, and the team were nothing short of professional and efficient. A full and detailed test and programme, with a full follow up care to get me back on the road to recovery, including getting the prescription to me. They were all pleasant and exemplary. Camborne and West Cornwall. Typed with my left index.
     
  18. symons55

    symons55 Moderator Staff Member

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    Bugger, are you ok? do you need anything? just shout if you do, don't suffer on your own!!!
     
  19. missp

    missp Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear that Raymond, please ask if you need any help, Best Wishes, Jeff & Pat xx
     
  20. sparky

    sparky Authoritarian Staff Member Administrator

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    Ditto what missp said, best wishes, need anything get in touch xx
     

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