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The Other World?

Discussion in 'Conspiracy theories' started by treeve, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Too many times in my life have I met with the Other World to be able to dismiss or deny that this is more than a purely Physical World.
    Serendipity, more than coincidence? Guiding Hands? Guardian Angel?
    Contact or Sighting? An unnatural Feeling in the Air? A silent Hand on the Shoulder? Tell us ... and please no stories from books old and new ... your personal experiences and/or beliefs.
     
  2. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    A dear friend, someone who I have known for many years lost his mother a year or so ago. Losing a parent (or both) is one of life's milestones and a major event and I asked him how he was coping with this - as I know that there is a very strong possibility that this is something I am likely to have to face in the next five - ten years. His answered surprised me.

    "Very well" he said. He went on to explain that he could feel her presence with him and an overwhelming feeling of love enveloping him that took away a lot of the grief he was experiencing. Physically, she had gone but she was still here but in a spiritual form, with him, guiding him.

    Personally, I have had no experience of a world beyond this, although I have had this. One afternoon, I was sitting in our garden and I had this feeling of being 'at one' with everything. The clouds in the sky, the sun on my face, the wind, the plants, the soil, the cats playing - literally everything. Everything was connected, we were all equal. It lasted only a few minutes, but for that time, I felt like I was on a higher plane - for want of a better phrase.

    The friend I mentioned earlier has a strong faith in God, and I believe that my life is no more important or any less important than any (and I mean any) other living thing. Perhaps these deep felt feelings had some bearing on our experiences.
     
  3. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    True, parents leave not only the 'usual' feelings of loss and grief, but there is an emptiness as to the fact that we have then become the present generation, we have then become the torch bearer, it carries a load. For some an angel appears, either spiritual or physical, even the person who has carried over int the Other World, often in the form of a spiritual presence or feeling. Maybe for some it is merely the Human spirit filling the void in its own Psyche, as it cannot find the strength to go on on its own? The feeling of Need is immense in the human heart. There are times when even any of those 'logical' parameters are applied, yet somehow what happens transcends all explanation, as in my cases. One for example of The Other World, a world not bound by psychological boundaries or the physical technological age is that of knowing from a distance of over 300 miles just when you are needed for a specific task or support for a specific person. To my thoughts this is only possible through a spiritual connection, a Guardian Angel that contacts to 'inform' as to the suffering experienced by the Loved One, to contact and help. Before I phoned, I knew what was wrong and often I had set in motion the events that would help ... and they did. Have you ever 'had the feeling' you were needed, or was it stronger, like mine, an image and a specific feeling over the temple?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  4. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    I can't recall ever feeling that I was needed so contacted someone to then find I was, but have experienced thinking about someone and within five or ten minutes received a phone call from them out of the blue - and it's been more than them just ringing for a chat. Though I believe this is quite common?

    Other times, I'll bump into someone who I haven't seen for ages, two or three times in one week - different places, different times and then I won't see them again for ages. Are these calls and meetings just coincidence - or have they been 'engineered'?

    I think in this modern age with 'modern problems', we have become desensitised to a degree and have lost the ability to feel, recognise and understand intangible things. Those who still can are very lucky.

    Just as a footnote to my previous post, I was thinking a lot today about my friend who had lost his mother and thought I should ring him. The thing is, he beat me to it and told me his father had just died.
     
  5. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    Just one more thing - my friend spent a lot of time with his dad during his last few days, but on Friday evening, found he had a sudden strong urge to go back to the hospital. He was glad he did, as his dad squeezed his hand and died soon after.

    Obviously he was expecting his dad to die as that what the doctors had told him, but the question is, why did he have that urge to go back to the hospital ....
     
  6. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I learned that through some Zen/Nichiren Shoshu thought it was possible to raise awarenes of action and reaction, of thought and emotion. It is possible that we are be actually 'raising' it back to where it used to be, in Man's early years when we survived on instinct, now long forgotten. However, I believe that there is Another World where the spirit reaches out to others. It can always be argued that personal circles will only naturally occur because it is likely that that person would be in our mind. But sometimes it is more than that, At the moment I have lost the art of 'listening to my awareness'. Some people develop a synchronicity, do not argue with it, it does happen.
    Have you ever read the Celestine Prophecy?

    Sorry to hear of your friend's loss.
     
  7. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    Thank you.

    The book title rings a bell, but I haven't read it. I take it you'd recommend it?

    What are your thoughts on 'primitive' cultures or Shamen who use plants or roots, etc to raise their consciousness into a spiritual plane? I put primitive into inverted comma as I believe their cultures are actually more enriched than ours in a lot of ways.

    Our society tends to frown upon such drugs, but I have often wondered why some plants have these properties? Is there a reason or just a coincidence the chemical compounds within them have an effect on our brains?
     
  8. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    I would recommend the Celestine Prophecy; it can be so inspirational; the principle is that it is a form of depiction of a Life's Journey, certainly not in the John Bunyan style, or Paul Coelho (The Alchemist) both of which I would thoroughly recommend for what happens to your own spirit.

    You mention The Shamen, an example of what I think of as of the Other World; I am except for this statement, avoiding the description Christianity, God, Angels, as much as I believe, there are other spirits abroad. Shamen draw upon deep feelings that reach into the core of the earth. They enter a trance like state which uses the inner mind of all humans. There are occasions in our half-sleep state when you may have noticed 'entoptic' images? Geometric patterns, that you have seen drawn on Cave walls? Many of the 'animals' depected are spirit beings that the Shamen have taken on as their being. We have used devices such as trance, visualisation or meditation. The Shamen becomes lost in a connection greater than that achieved in transandental meditation. They do not feel the object, they are the object. Yes drugs are used, and at times with fatal effects. In those states of heightened awareness, the Shamen can travel through Time and through the Cosmos.
    Don't forget that Man has been around a long time, despite the tick of the clock in comparison with Earth Time let alone Cosmic Time. I am sure an initiate having tried something that had fatal effect would not be taken by another initiate. There has been time to learn.
     
  9. tabtab13

    tabtab13 Active Member

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    We live in a world where science has given us so much, but I can't help but feel it's a double edged sword. We now understand so much, but on the other hand, we understand so little. As you said earlier, a lot of our instincts have been lost, and we find ourselves somewhat out of touch with our surroundings.

    Animals seems to have a more keen awareness. I'm sure any cat owner will have experienced this - have you seen your cat stare up at something and seem transfixed? It always seems to be upwards for some reason - ours have done this and I've watched their pupils enlarge as they look at whatever it is they can see - and their heads move as they follow whatever it is. I've looked for whatever it is that's causing this, but can't see anything - no small bugs fluttering away, nothing at all, nothing moving that would catch their eyes. No doubt there is a scientific 'explanation' for this ...

    I watched a very interesting documentary about near death experiences once, people who had 'died' on operating tables before being brought back to life. These experiences had profound effects on the people who had them, but scientists dismissed them - claiming it was all part of the body's natural degeneration as it shut down.

    What are your thoughts on near death experiences?
     
  10. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Catatonic

    Animals retain a contact with and use our innermost survival kit.
    We have it but generally let it get on with its automatic business.
    They are the core of our being, the Human has many complex emotions, most do not even attempt to understand their reactions or desires. Psychology makes a mint out of it. But all we have to do is to read the Ancient Myths of Greece ... they knew how a human operated. I talk about the Amygdala and its close partner the Hypothalamus. This is the Control Centre. Your deepest emotions and responses stem from ancient development, for example, did you evolve from a race of people who saw the spider as a mother figure, or one that fulfilled a cycle of change, as a snake does engender? The innermost secrets of Jungian Imagery can be found there, if only we take time to analyse it all. What Beast lurks in your Id, to appear in Dreams? Watch them, the nightmare embodies your resistance, it is not a Hammer House of Horror, bad dreams are your friends. That is the reason we awake from those dreams in a panic, because the conscious refuses to look at the subconscious.
    Animals have less awareness used for day to day communication, television, cars, shopping, and so have retained that base motivation, and do indeed see or are aware of spirits. That is why Familiars are used, somewhat like the Shamen are absorbed into the animal spirit.
    A simple for example ... daily a cat will look for food, as its accepted place in the house. Have a bad day or perhaps in a serious emotional state and the cat will react in odd ways, more contact, a closeness, offering itself as a smoothing surface, sit down howling out your eyes and it will stay with you for an age, a comfort ... well that has been my experience. However ... I have had experiences with cats that have gone beyond the senses, that go beyond the 'basic instinct' and that convinces me that cats have an awareness of the spirit. I have not myself seen it in other animals. I have even seen a cat with hackles raised for no reason that I can see, yet at the same time I have been aware myself of a 'presence' a pressure, a breath of air, a coldness ...
    Maybe it is a symbiotic reaction?
     
  11. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    Near Death Experiences

    ... a rather immotive subject, with no real proof in either direction.
    It is down to personal experience. One problem in this modern world is that the mind is 'open to suggestion' and it is also willing to use what it 'thinks it knows' as a bolster. This is the problem that was unforseen and is now of vital importance in Psychology and in analysis of trauma and the state of the mind. It was discovered that implanted ideas of events that never happened were placed in the minds of the sufferer by the psychologist themselves. It rather is linked with Mind Games played in times of conflict with prisoners. The mind becomes so confused that there is no division between reality and fiction, the curtain between good and evil or between friend and enemy is ripped away. So, when the mind approaches what is perceived to be death and physiologically is shown to be so by medical evidence, is the mind 'duped' by itself into accepting that 'this is what they are supposed to see'? Or is it a real experience by the Soul as it separates itself from Physical Being? It is easy to be highly skeptical and define this as an abberration of purely electrochemical responses, but the imagery - just where does this source itself? Why that imagery rather than the person's pet duck, or their cottage in the country or their love? The person has no immediate consciousness and no immediate control, so any image could be triggered or experienced. Myself, I believe that the ' walking in the tunnel towards the light' has meaning and it has spiritual connection. If we believe what is written, there is a place between Earth and physical Being and Heaven - a spiritual existence, it is named Limbo, where souls await the Final Trump. I really cannot expect the Soul to be left in a dark place, with nothing but Fear to experience. I will leave this Theological point for a while ....
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  12. treeve

    treeve Major Contributor

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    What IS Life?

    Generally speaking there are subjects which are avoided as if they were of Plague proportions and that, fear of fear, it may be contageous. Politics and Religion. Politics clearly is not taboo on the site; When it comes to Religion, in this Politically Correct World, I have never understood the degrees to which people's hearts are segregated and sliced when they are essentially following the same goal. In any event, that particular aspect must be avoided here.

    The question as to 'Near Death Experiences' has been raised. The question itself is wrapped in other questions. What IS Life? Is there something after Death, which may have some connection with the spirits of this Other World. If there is a spirit world of some kind, then perhaps a Supreme Being, or perhaps a Spring within the Mind. We refer to Love, and it is Felt in the Heart. The Ancient Egyptians saw the Human as being a number of layers or conscious beings within one space, where a person had three hearts or other organs in one place, each with its own function in time and space. Referring to Love, this is that when one person's 'soul' reaches out to another (not the I love a packet of crisps, or I love the latest single; nor the confused psychodependencies of society). There is a point when the series of neurophysiology that drives our amino acids leaves the definition of plant into a knowing walking person. I had it explained to me for example, by a leading Theologian that Animals must have souls because they are aware of another and of humans, not in the automotive sense that 'we are food on legs', but in the sense that an emotional contact could be made. He defined that moment when a creature (animal or human) could acknowledge and appreciate the other animal/human exists and that a bond could be made. The question then arises as to whether or not this Bond is one generated from a mutual need, or one of an external but genuine extension of the self for mutual unconditional growth of the soul ... which is the true definition of Love.
    To my mind the definition of Love is an extension of that same belief that (to me) accepts that there is a Supreme Being.
    Beyond that question is another that begs the origins of the Universe and just where it fits. There are those that rattle on about Big Bang, with no knowledge of how or why it happened. Oh yes they can tell you chapter and verse as to the nature and force involved in the microsecond after the vast 'explosion' - they cannot explain the chaos that followed as it does not align with their own science, nor can the explain what happened prior to the microsecond in any way shape or form. Where did the material come from ... dunno .. How did is accrete in the first place ... dunno ... where is all this material ... dunno ... and then they wander off designing on paper string theory and all the other theories that make their flawed ideas work, until they discover that it needs another theory to make that work. If Time has no End, or any Beginning, it follows that since time and space are relative that space itself is limitless. Our minds cannot conceive of infinity. However it is unavoidable that an object exists in a defined location. It HAS to be somewhere, and it does no good at all to talk about Folded Space, of hyperbolic paraboloid stretched Space, IT STILL HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE. It is worse than a Conundrum. It is an impossibility.
    To my way of thinking there are only two ways in which the impossibilities could come into being; total complete blind chance which produced sompletely at random the precise set of rules to bring about this Universe and its contents, or a Supreme Being with a set of plans. Yes we can play with Infinite Time and the monkey with the typewriter theory and Darwinian Development, but I regret that each of those requires something else to have got it all started; you see you have to start somewhere with all the theories, and it does not ever go far back enough in their thinking.

    There is one unavoidable fact ... matter cannot be destroyed, matter cannot be created from nothing. Whatever is here now was always here and always will be; whatever we are built from was once a part of a star.

    What ever all the tests and theorising are written and explored, we have an irrefutable fact ... they do not know, they were not there, there is no evidence. Until someone can give me an electroanalysis of brain patterns and be able to tap into the ultimate source of what I see to be Life, and to be able to look into the Being and know what 'neurocarbons' actually do, surgeons will only be able to measure against their own skeptical yardstick.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009

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