Penzance Harbour Development - a balanced view.

Halfhidden

Untouchable
Administrator
Here, here!
Despicable behaviour from RP! Clearly acting far from professional but also worried that perhaps Cornwall Council will come to its senses and scraps the plans in favour for a more sensible approach.
 

Halfhidden

Untouchable
Administrator
These are my thoughts on the recent escalation over the controversial ferry port plans.
I think people need to get a grip here. Andrew George represents both Penzance and IoS as our elected MP. Despite what people think of Mp’s because of the recent expenses scandal has no bearing on this situation at all and only fools would think otherwise.
This really isn’t about Andrew George, this is about the fact that the people in Penzance have a right to decide on our own domestic matters. As an MP, the people in Penzance has asked him for assistance because we were powerless to stop a building project that was about to destroy, what is after all, a protected area. Let’s face it preservation was placed on this area many years ago to stop crazy ideas like this destroying our heritage. To be fair he’s dammed if helps and dammed if he doesn’t.
The reason why this awful situation is so explosive is because of the mismanagement of the route partnership. In fact it begs the question of whether or not this was intended to happen. Why is route partnership made up of the IoS, Cornwall council and private sponsors..... why wasn’t a representative of Penzance placed on the board in the first instance?
Serious damage is being done to the relationship of the Scillonian’s and the people of Penzance and the route of the problem lies fairly and squarely with those who push this unworkable agenda upon the people of Penzance without any consultation.
Responsibility for the breakdown in relationships lies solely with rote partnership.
The people in the IoS are good people, we have no wish to escalate this any further than what it really is.... a planning dispute.
I urge those in a responsible position to work together for a solution.... because once this is over there’s a lot of bridges to build!
 

Bilge Rat

Member
Support for Andrew George MP

I have written letters of support for Andrew George MP to Nick Clegg, Leader of the LibDems, Lord Adonis, Secretary of State for Transport and Paul Clark, Shipping Minister.
I have included a history of the proposal from 2004 to show how the people of Penzance have been consistently ignored in their rejection of Option A.
I am awaiting a reply to my letter of last week to HRH Prince Charles the Duke of Cornwall. I must say I have never had the courtesy of a response from him to any of my past letters.
 

Halfhidden

Untouchable
Administrator
Interesting reading Duffy. I have passed the link on to those who support us..... Thanks!

Here's a reply to a email I wrote in support of MP Andrew George after the announcement and subsequent vote of no confidence in him from the Isles of Scilly Council:

[FONT=&quot]Many thanks for your email to Nick Clegg MP. Nick has asked me to contact you on his behalf and I apologise for the delay in responding. I hope you will understand that, due to the sheer volume of correspondence that Nick has been receiving, it can take some time for us to reply.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nick has also asked me to thank you very much for your kind words of support for Andrew George MP – we were naturally delighted to receive such positive feedback and its great that you are so pleased with his work. We fully believe that Andrew is an extremely hardworking constituency MP, regularly working with local people, allowing them to air their views and campaigning on their behalf, both locally and nationally. Please rest assured your comments have been passed on.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you once again for emailing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Best wishes,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Douglas Dowell[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Office of Nick Clegg MP[/FONT]
 

tabtab13

Active Member
I read the article about listed buildings etc on the Telegraph's web site - who does this government think they are?!

Were they voted in to do such things? Was it part of their manifesto to get elected? I don't think so.

It's all just too much - we've had expense scandals, Big Brother trying to invade more and more of our personal lives, Health & Safety gone crazy and recently a scientist sacked because his expert knowledge of drugs didn't fit in with what the government wanted to hear.

And now they want to make it easier to demolish our heritage.

History shows us that we wanted democracy - and wanted a parliament so the common man or woman could be heard. How ironic that this government has degenerated into a dictatorship and basically does what ever it wants regardless.

It's all a bit too much like the end of Orwell's 'Animal Farm' for my liking.
 

duffy

Member
tabta13,

Unfortunately this is why more and more of people like us (me and the wife) left our beloved Cornwall and the UK, we could see what was coming - and it has arrived.::8:.

I can never envisage coming home to live if the present madness as you described continues. I guess I will end up just another emmet. ::6:::6:
 

treeve

Major Contributor
In looking at the shock of the despicable shake up of our historic buildings and their status, one cannot help wondering if the rp already knew of this smell in the political pipework? Something stinks about it all.
 

Bilge Rat

Member
Public meeting on Sunday

The Friends of Penzance Harbour are holding a meeting on the triangle by the War

Memorial overlooking Battery Rocks on Sunday 15th November at 10.30am.
All are welcome!
 

Bilge Rat

Member
Meeting at Queens hotel

Over 200 people crammed into the Ballroom at the Queen's Hotel yesterday evening to hear a leading historic building specialist describe the South Pier of Penzance Harbour as one of the most important historic structures in Cornwall.
Among them were Andrew George MP, Derek Thomas PPC, Mike Waters Chair of the CoC and many more interesting local figures.
Nick Cahill, author of the Penzance Harbour South Pier “Historic Building Analysis”, presented his report and answered questions from the audience. The Historic Building Analysis is part of the documentation that accompanies the Cornwall Council application for "listed building consent" in respect of plans to build on Battery Rocks beach. It is an up-to-date and comprehensive assessment of the South Pier’s heritage status.

Amongst other things the report concludes that the South Pier should be elevated from it’s current Grade II listing to at least Grade II*, which would place it among the top 8% of historic buildings nationally.

If Cornwall Council proceeds with plans to build on Battery Rocks beach the scheme will encase the most historically sensitive parts of the pier in concrete, entirely and permanently obscuring them from view. The plans also include the demolition of sections of the parapet wall to allow lorry access to the proposed new freight handling facility.

The deadline for objections to the application for listed building consent is November 19th.

For more information including the Historic Building Analysis and slides from the presentation please go to: http://www.friendsofpzharbour.org/blog_more.php?b=55
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Some of you may already be aware that I have the highest regard for Nick Cahill.
A question that is floating around is the background to the area used as a Parade Ground, in front of the War Memorial, which has date stones on the wall of 1839 et seq; I had already put thought and research into that and had come up with the following (which is already on site in the Time Past album (search for munpit).
'To the left is the old wall, clearly divided into base and the re-built top; the lower wall is as in the photograph of 1915. It is the wall as built prior to 1720, as the 1839 wall was built on top of that level, and the access to the paving of 1740 is shown on the 1915 photo, and has not been changed from that of 1740, it is still there. The level of the access to the battery had to be between the Kiln yard and the tenement courts, as shown on the OS of 1875, and as shown on the 1842 Tithe Map. Boundaries were defined by ownership and inheritance, the route to the battery would have been sacresanct. It is also clear that this wall was a part of the munpit of before 1720, I therefore suggest that it is a part of the original barbican defence wall of the town and quay. If only as the stone of which is is made. To the right is the wall of 1923, 'new' faced, yet the inside is of re-used original cut stone of 1839, on its new alignment.
The area was much used by the most noxious of industries. Owned early 18th century by George Daniel, the area was Cellars and Salthouses, together with a Munpit (a large pit for the decay of fish for manure), it is my suspicion that the lower wall to the east shore of Battery was a part of that pit. The area later passed to the Cornish (name not identity) family and in 1872 became a much needed limekiln, for agricultural use and for building lime mortar in the new age of building in Penzance; lime was used for washing of buildings, a protection to timber, used to remove hides, used in cess pits. The burning process was slow and not continuous as the kiln was loaded and cleared. The kiln burns limestone or shells, both of which would have been landed at the small beach in the same way that fish was landed for rotting in years before. Limestone was dropped from the calling ships, into the water and when the tide went out, the labourers brought the stone to the Limekiln yard. '
I have some notes sketched out on the family of Cornish, but not yet formalised. The whole area is steeped in history.
I also have on site the illustration of the wreck of The Diana in 1855, a very useful indication of the appearance of Penzance harbour at that time, including the lookout tower. Look in St Anthony's Fleet album.
Unfortunately all of this may have value, but it means nothing to those with other agendas.
 

Bilge Rat

Member
White elephant

"RMV White Elephant" or, why two ships are better than one for Penzance!

Cornwall Council has been telling us for a while that there isn’t time to review their choice of a single ship for the new Scilly Link operation, but the Council of the Isles of Scilly is now saying that a faster ship operating out of Falmouth might suit them better. Falmouth is not an option, but if there’s time to reopen the choice of ship, then we should do so, because two ships would be better than one for Penzance.

The choice of a single larger combined passenger and freight vessel is bad for the fabric of the historic pier, bad for customers of the service, a serious threat to local jobs and a potential source of council tax rises. Here's why:

• It risks putting the local Dry Dock permanently out of business, with consequent loss of at least 40 local jobs. At the moment the Scilly Link vessels are an important customer for the Dry Dock. The new vessel will not fit and will have to be dry-docked elsewhere.
• A single combined vessel will be slow and do nothing to encourage day trips to the Scillies, which is an important attraction for visitors staying in Penzance.
• With passengers and freight travelling on the same vessel the sailing times and port operations cannot be optimised for either passengers or freight, resulting in health & safety issues, a poor quality service, and missed opportunities for integration with bus and train services.
• With just one ship operating all year round the service is vulnerable to unexpected breakdown, as happened in the summer of 2008 when the Gry Maritha was out of service for several weeks.
• Cornwall Council claims that the larger vessel will require an expensive pier extension and ugly rock armouring to the historic Lighthouse Pier, and it will still have to use Albert Pier in bad weather, which will result in the loss of valuable small craft moorings.
• With a traditional combined passenger and freight vessel there is a risk that a competing operator with a fast ferry could enter the market, cream off the summer day-tripper trade, and leave the Council-subsidised operation running at a loss with council tax-payers picking up the tab.

For more on this story go to: http://www.friendsofpzharbour.org/blog_more.php?b=62

 

treeve

Major Contributor
Once again ... nail on the head, highlighting a major aspect of this whole proposal ... I would not trust this lot with designing a project for a rabbit hutch , as they deliberated the cost and the position, the materials etc, they would still not be able to agree or come up with a sensible solution - they would end up having the rabbits for dinner, and say thank you for your contribution.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
The Red Sea?

In running through the comments on the sea wall, and on the sea front itself, we should pay due regard for facts and not what are some educated people's opinions. The realisation has been accepted in The Netherlands, for example, where sea defence is rather more critical than here at Penzance, as critical as that could prove to be if our Promenade and the remainder of the shoreline is not properly protected, whilst massive expense and destruction is applied to a single portion of the harbour area.
The Maeslant Barrier has been designed to prevent a massive surge in sea levels, protecting half of the Dutch country, cities and infrastructure, as well as its people from that 1 in 10,000 year storm. Scientists, Statisticians and Insurers are so keen to leap on those figures to declare the resistance to an intrusive and destructive agent.
However, I have long held that they are only figures. Professor Piet Dircke of the Urban Water Management of Rotterdam states "A one in 10,000 year protection level sounds very good but it's just statistics, and that event could happen tomorrow". We are led to believe from the design and positioning of the rock armour wall that the sea is going to get together with the winds and head for Penzance in a single focused line across the Bay. Cecil B de Mille has just sold the Rights. Penzance has had some serious storms in reported memory, as well as those in the distant past that have altered the Bay and this sea front. Forget statistics and odds. It HAS happened, it WILL happen again, and it could be tomorrow.
 

BayOfPlenty

Member
I see that great advocate of local democracy, Cllr Hicks, has made the hallowed pages of this fortnight's edition of Private Eye ::6:
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Penzance and Bokonism

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. [Kurt Vonnegut]
 

Halfhidden

Untouchable
Administrator
[FONT=&quot]English Heritage say NO to building on Battery Rocks beach

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[FONT=&quot]In their response to the recent Cornwall Council request for listed building consent in respect of Penzance’s historic South Pier, English Heritage have objected to the plans to in-fill and build on Battery Rocks beach.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In their capacity as statutory advisor's on matters relating to historic structures English Heritage have told Cornwall Council that their plans to build on Battery Rocks beach will “cause considerable harm to the listed structure and to the surrounding coast and townscape” and recommended “that this element is… removed from the current proposals”.
And about time.... English Heritage comes to it's senses in the 11th hour!::7:::7:
[/FONT]
 

treeve

Major Contributor
When I worked in the Architectural 'field', we went through a lengthy process of investigation and discussion with as many 'interested parties' as possible; that way there were no delays and no red faces either in anger from the client or in embarrassment from us as a team. Do not forget there is a Process of Appeal still open to 'Them' and whatever powers they may be able to jemmy through the recent changes in legislation.
Myself, I am delighted with this sane and logical decision that protects our heritage and our town ... if you have a mind to, read ...

http://www.heritage.co.uk/apavilions/glstb.html
 
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