Getting 'out of it'

treeve

Major Contributor
2

After this point develops a Holy War. I wonder how many unbelievers read ancient scriptures simply to prove that Jesus was high, and so 'it must be OK man for, like me'. Or are they seeking Enlightenment? Maybe they want to Rise again?

The problem is that any questful reader, in this present era, will read exactly what they want to read. They ignore the original context, and forget the fact that they have acquired experiences and knowledge that were not known in the time it was written.

It is also easy to analyse a substance in present day laboratories and isolate particular molecules which can be shown to have properties that are now considered on the suspect list. Hindsight is easy, Magnification is expected.

Also remember the words of Sir Francis Bacon; There is nothing so good that it may not be perverted by reporting it ill.

Not having seen her Paper, though I gather it has been reprinted in 1967 and 1972 in The Book of Grass (though some claim it is the whole, I have seen the index page, and there is considerably more than her Paper. It would appear to be a combined energy in convincing the world that it is OK, to immerse oneself in marijuana, hashish, and so on. In this convulsion, a number of factors are ignored.

The calamus mentioned in KJV Exodus, is not the original word used in the Hebrew. It was originally kaneh bosm, which was ‘tracked down’ as being hemp. I will return to that. Hemp was one of those universal plants that had many uses. Maybe the question is, did Man discover those uses because he had a lot of it and did not want to throw any of it away, and investigated any possible use? Fine, we can make fibres, cloth and ropes from this, what do we do with the flowers, the seeds, the roots? The name Cannabis was not properly postulated until 1753, a couple of thousand years nearly after the Holy Words were put to the scrolls and well after the KJV. What with the confusion as to ‘mistranslation’ by the Septuagint in c300 AD, and the further translations for the King James Verson, followed by the intervention of Sir Francis Bacon, who took it into his head to alter a few words of this translation, he put calamus, having experience of that herb in his own writings and concoctions. When Linnaeus categorised the plant in 1753, he ‘drew upon’ his own experience. In 1785 came the name for the ‘Indian’ verson. The name cannabis was official. Before that it was hemp in Old English henep.

So, unless one knew Greek, or happened to know a merchant from Scythia (said to be the origin of ‘scythe’ by some, as being designed specifially to harvest said crops; yet actually the word scythe descends through Old English and Germanic ‘sithe’), the word or its precursor would not have entered your consciousness. It is said, in hindsight works for the term kaneh bosm to originate from Scythian, ‘astonishing similarity seen between Semitic 'kanbos' and the Scythian 'cannabis'; I regret that I see precious little similarity in this anglicized comparison.

Remembering the general level of ignorance in the people, controlled by The Church, nowadays contolled by the Media, I would even suggest that the word cannabis was unknown at that time in general circles in Europe.

Until Sara began her quest, 'Calamus' was considered to be Sweet Cane, perhaps even Lemon Grass.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
3

Right – Scythians ‘appeared’ around 700BC. To amplify this c500 BC Darius had to cross the Bosphorus to reach the Scythians. The Scythians are supposed to have traded in Ukraine and Southern Rus, ending up 1st century BC in the area of Parthia. Parthia being the reported source of the use of cannabis as a mind altering drug, passed to Hebrews. Something goes adrift with history, I regret. As traders? The account by Herodotus paints a picture of perhaps the most obnoxious uncooperative bunch ever. Pretty much like a cross between Night of the Living Dead and the Worst of Mad Max. More on that later.

Herodotus himself relates the history and legend of the Scythians, he is quite specific and adamamant that it was a thousand years from the beginnings of Scythia to the date that Darius invaded. It appears from contemporary knowledge that the Scythians one lived in ancient Iran, and made war upon the Massegaete, failing in that they retreated to the Volga and crossed into The Crimea, where they stayed. The Crimea is occupied by many tribes, only a portion of them were Scythian.

Exodus 1235 BC. Moses dies 1195 BC, the end of The Bronze Age; as I have discussed elsewhere, I am very wary of word quotes from The Bible, it being not something that was written in one sitting nor at Creation in 3761 BC. Much is made of words used in ancient texts. However they would have been written solely in consonants. By the time the Septuagent saw the Hebrew for translation into Greek, it could have been anyone’s guess, it would have been subject to considerable discussion and voting as to what was written.

Masoretic Text ‘emerged’ in 70AD. Until that time mere fragments existed, it had been committed to memory. Qumran Scrolls date from 150 BC. So, the question is just what words were in the texts of 70AD in consonants only that were postulated and approved and the Greek word Kannabis? A word which was translated into English as 'hemp' and later revised to 'calumus' by Sir Francis Bacon? The Septuagint Bible was commenced 3rd century BC, as a Koine Greek translation from the Hebrew, finished c130BC. This Bible became the basis from which other sacred texts were compiled. There are profound differences between Masoretic Texts (the foundation of The Torah) and the writings of the Septuagint Bible. The King James version OT was translated from the Masoretic texts. Apocryphal books (with exceptions) were translated from he Septuagint. I should add that I think that from the Judaic Talmud, the Masoretic Texts date from c450BC, I have the statement home here somewhere, if I find it, it will be added on the last part.

It is the Masoretic Texts that contain the diacriticals. The earliest surviving text is from the 9th Century AD. Vowels were added by the Masoreh. Whilst we have all the Talmud’s assertions as to the continuance of the correctness of the Masoretic Texts, as far as any etymologist is concerned, an inspection of words from the time in which they are supposed to be investigating possible connections, is void. The major problem is that the words are written in non-Latin text characters, many of which have no direct transferrable sounds in English/Latin characters. The words only too often have no vowels, or any present knowledge as to pronunciation or emphasis exists. We have enough ‘madness’ in our own language over a few hundred years, to ignore the fact that language changes its meaning and its usage.

So when it is claimed that Sara Benetowa found in the original Hebrew Text that the Old Testament “kaneh bosm” was mistranslated from the original Hebrew to Greek as calamous in 3rd century BC, it is totally wrong.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
4

It is also claimed that in 1980 the Hebrew Institute of Jerusalem confirmed her claim that indeed ‘kaneh bosm’ is cannabis; However it is also a fact that Hebrew opinion is widely divided, as well as one member stating that he did not know.
Whether or not 'kaneh bosm' is 'hemp' is not the issue.

Whether or not the word from which the translation was made meant a or b in 200BC does not determine that it means a or b in 900AD. Neither does it mean that the plant was cooked down and used for spaced out trips. Their appears to be a general opinion that the word meant the fibres of the plant, some say the flower.

Whatever it is, it was a part of an anointing oil, selected and prepared for its divine properties and associations. It was prepared and stored with the utmost cleanliness. This was no junkie snort. Unless my earlier jibe has an element of truth? Were the Elders nothing else but a bunch of ‘Shamen’ – were the visions and miracles the subject of a Wild Trip.

All of a sudden, with the advent of Laws and rulings on the use of drugs in our time, everyone becomes a Follower, an Etymologist, an Historian, ‘cos. Like man, Jesus was on Marijuana, so it must be cool. Where did all that come from? Quite simply they are clutching at straws to justify their habit., I would have said hemp stalks, but they are strong.

Let’s be honest here. It is not a dangerous drug, it is mildly habit forming. Whatever. It is what could be viewed as a Gift from God, the universally beneficial plant. It contains all the nutrients to sustain a good healthy diet, let alone the multitide of other uses, more being discovered in this century. But, as to it’s place in the hallucinatory chain, it is a short step to other more serious drugs with horrendous connotations and fatality.

Just how many occasions is the word calamus/kanneh-bosm found in The Bible?
Five. That number in the whole mountain of words.
Exodus_30:23; Song of Solomon_4:14,
Ezekiel_27:19; Isaiah_43:24; Jeremiah_6:20.
That is five out of c600,000 words.
A rather insignificant percentage. Not exactly a burning issue, eh?
Can we look at the real message here?
The Internet is full of wild ravings, probably mainly while spaced out on their own psychoreactive choice, or copied endlessly, with the occasional trip into fiction.

‘Tracing One Word Through Different Languages.’ Appears then to have been on a specific choice of word for a predetermined result. Not the best parameter for erudite research.

I will close with one more ...
 

treeve

Major Contributor
5

As I discussed at the outset. Plants have been around for a long time, without any regard for humans. If they were placed here, it would be an impossibility, the molten rock would have burned them. They developed and grew from the constituents that make up the world on which we live. Everything that is, is here as a part of the whole.

Everything that is here is recorded in writing of history if it had any significance in the lives of those as they developed their knowledge in agriculture, society and especially their skill in writing itself. It is therefore not surprising to find so few words relating to a plant which was first unremarkable, then found to have food and material uses, or medicinal benefits.

Atharva Vedas [1100BC] describe a plant named bhanga, a name used for hemp;
II, 4. Charm with an amulet derived from the gangida tree, against diseases and demons.
1. Unto long life and great delights, for ever unharmed and vigorous, do we wear the gangida, as an amulet destructive of the vishkandha.
2. From convulsions, from tearing pain, from vishkandha, and from torturing pain, the gangida shall protect us on all sides--an amulet of a thousand virtues!
3. This gangida conquers the vishkandha, and smites the Atrin (devouring demons); may this all-healing gangida protect us from adversity!
4. By means of the invigorating gangida, bestowed by the gods as an amulet, do we conquer in battle the vishkandha and all the Rakshas.
5. May the bhanga and may gangida protect me against vishkandha! The one (gangida) is brought hither from the forest, the other (bhanga) from the sap of the furrow.
6. Destruction of witchcraft is this amulet, also destruction of hostile powers: may the powerful gangida therefore extend far our lives!

There are some claims that this plant was introduced to the area by the Scythians. A neat Time Travelling trick. The above quotation is one of the many medicinal charms shown in the Atharva Veda.

As far as linguistics is concerned it is claimed for example that the Assyrians had ‘cannabis’ first in 900BC. Named in angicized form quonoubou, that I ould like to check. Another that needs checking is the claim that The Celts named it quannab.

Herodotus writes in 5th Century of his travels through the Crimea.
Hemp grows in Scythia: it is very like flax; only that it is a much coarser and taller plant: some grows wild about the country, some is produced by cultivation: the Thracians make garments of it which closely resemble linen; so much so, indeed, that if a person has never seen hemp he is sure to think they are linen, and if he has, unless he is very experienced in such matters, he will not know of which material they are. The Scythians, as I said, take some of this hemp-seed, and, creeping under the felt coverings, throw it upon the red-hot stones; immediately it smokes, and gives out such a vapour as no Grecian vapour-bath can exceed; the Scyths, delighted, shout for joy, and this vapour serves them instead of a water-bath; for they never by any chance wash their bodies with water. Their women make a mixture of cypress, cedar, and frankincense wood, which they pound into a paste upon a rough piece of stone, adding a little water to it. With this substance, which is of a thick consistency, they plaster their faces all over, and indeed their whole bodies. A sweet odour is thereby imparted to them, and when they take off the plaster on the day following, their skin is clean and glossy.

I see no interpretation here that the Scythians were doing this for any other reason than a basic steam bath with perfume.

Hebrew Bible footnote.
I have the Ginsberg Massoretico Critical Analysis; I can find no reference to any document prior to 916AD.

I can imagine the Heavenly tirade. 'Just look at that give those ungrateful humans something to feed and clothe themselves, even make sails and ropes, what do they do? Then some halfwit reads that I appeared in a cloud, and thinks it must have been marijuana they were burning. Give me strength! Hang on a minute, I am all powerful, next time they take a whiff, I'll give em a vision they will not forget."

 

tabtab13

Active Member
Blimey - that's a hell of of a lot of research, treeve! An excellent read and fascinating stuff - so I think you've pretty much sewn up any possibilities that such plants are here for a 'reason'. I shall refrain from any quips about Moses smoking the bush on the Mount, and it wasn't just there 'burning' ....

I shall ponder for a few days and see if I can add anything else to take this thread any further - but please add anything more yourself if you think would be of interest. Thoughts on more heavy weight hallucinogens in particular - in relation to 'God', Spirits, other planes etc.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Only too pleased to have followed that one. Thankfully I had much of it here. I did have to check out some internet sources, but checked them back again in my shelves. I have never considered an answer to a multi framed question is best followed on a single path. I try and look down as many alleyways as I can. In that way, I often find things that have bothered me for years. Such as the age old question of the Scythians. I can now discard all the rubbish written of them, having found that Herodotus saw them. I have a number of other of Herodotus' writings to read anyway, so will enjoy reading of said Scythians. Herodotus, I believe. He was there. Not some spaced out wreck on hash looking for the last piece of his brain, 2,500 years later.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
This one bothered me ...
'The Celts named it quannab'

Well, Celts were a widespread peoples, and there is a particular aspect of one group that I am already studying.
No one has found a complete set of the modern latin alphabet in any case, in any 'Celtic' character. The Lepontic characters and general used Celtic forms came in as a combination of the differing characters and Celtic Languages in the 7th Century BC. Certainly no 'Q' or 'B', so that assertion is way off beam. They probably used the European Hemp for their many normal uses.
 

treeve

Major Contributor
Hemp no doubt used as foodstuff and clothing a traditional and most efficacious usage. The priests did not exist in Britain until the arrival of the various groups of Celtic tribes. The Priests ruled that no one save for the priests were allowed to read and write. Setting the precursor of The Church and its control of knowledge. Another alphabet script developed - The Ogham, but no one has claimed they were 'on cannabis'. Why do these halfwits make so many claims? I have to complete my research on the Scythians, the 'Iranians'/Sumerians and the Celts across Europe from my own angle yet. Not part of this thread.
 

46traveller

Member
It's just an article, explaining the many uses of Hemp before it's ban with a few updated comments. Personally I've got two Hemp shirts, hard wearing yet soft and comfortable that I've owned and worn regularly over three years. They have outlasted at least one cotton shirt, and still look smart. It's not about inbibing, or getting wrecked, that's not the point. With the UK now using Hemp Sprays on prescription to select patients, isn't it about time they researched it for other uses and medicines? Whatever your outlook Hemp paper is cheaper to produce than using trees, well it should be cheaper but owing to having to import it, it works out dearer. It was a plant a long time before it was a drug.
 

46traveller

Member
GW Pharmaceuticals know full well that cannabis can treat many illnesses and has APPLIED FOR, AND BEEN GRANTED, a license to grow, process & distibute in the UK.

So by issuing that license the government have undermined the whole argument that cannabis is a schedule 1 drug (no medicinal use) and also its classification and illegality.

Sort of gives the saying "Dig For Victory" a new meaning.
 
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46traveller

Member
Instruction Manual for the severly bewildered.

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